How to play AGAINST Zamus

[BatShark]

So after finally encountering a handful of legit ZSS players, I'm fairly convinced that there is little to no way she finds herself very far outside of the top 5 when things start settling down.

Without getting into a character-by-character matchup discussion, how do you deal with Zamus? I feel like her dash attack is nearly unpunishable (Can't shield grab it, she pops up behind you. And the lag is so little that a shield to side-tilt behind you isn't going to happen if she's on point with the defensive reaction. Maybe a perfect pivot grab with some characters? I have no idea.) You can try to rush her down over the neutral B's but unless you read it in advance, she can space in a way that very few characters can get to her in time for a punish. She's strong in the air, strong above you, very strong below you.

Her multi-hit smashes bounce off your shield and spaces her back safely in many cases, so you can't punish those misses with your own grabs or smashes or tilts. It's incredible how on-point you have to be against a ZSS that knows what she's doing.

Thoughts? Advice? ZSS players, what do you usually struggle against and why? What kind of characters disrupt your favored patterns and approaches?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

A lot of Zamus' that I've seen tend to rely on B --> dash cancel grab as their bread and butter, which can be shut down by characters with reflectors. When playing as ZSS, the character I hate playing against most is probably Falco because of his long-range reflector which can very quickly knock stun shots back at her and his lasers, which tends to put a stop in my usual play patterns. I'm no pro with ZSS yet, though, and my knowledge of the Falco matchup is limited at best.

 

[BatShark]

So switch to one of the more noticeably weak characters in the game, got it.

I think a decent ZSS adjusts to that and then just relies on the rest of her very-strong kit. The laser stuns are just a luxury at that point.

 

[Unicorn]

When playing ZSS my main weakness is characters who can outrange me. One of her great strengths is her ability to keep opponents who need to close at bay with Paralyzer and Plasma Whip, and she can stay on top of characters who are trying to camp with her great approach tools... normally. I've found that getting through the wall of pain that Toon Link or Link can put up with 3 goddamn projectiles at varying heights and speeds is difficult, but maybe I'm just bad. Another thing is when I'm being predictable with my grab approaches or shield grabs, guys will just hop over it and get a nice solid aerial in, so try SH over when you smell a grab.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

When she dashes up to you, roll behind her, she can't really do much about it. Pivot grab won't reach you if your character has a good roll. This is only true if she's already in her full dash animation btw, she can pivot and dsmash you if she's in fox trot.

 

[pichuthedk]

well if you keep doing that the zss player will probably grounded b reverse lasers to catch you slippin.

pivot dsmash is good to.

 

[Disorient]

I think Rosalina is among her worst MUs if not the worst.
Both her grab + follow up & laser game are kind of shut down and it is very difficult to fight her without those things when Luma is still alive. I'm not too experienced at the MU though, might just need a severe change in playstyle.

 

[BatShark]

Rolling behind her doesn't gain anything other than a reset back to neutral, you'll be too far to respond with anything but a super-quick projectile, and I'm not entirely sure that's guaranteed.

 

[pichuthedk]

I think Rosalina is among her worst MUs if not the worst.
Both her grab + follow up & laser game are kind of shut down and it is very difficult to fight her without those things when Luma is still alive. I'm not too experienced at the MU though, might just need a severe change in playstyle.

That's not entirely correct watching Choco's matches with Rain here and sure there a lot of times where he is overly pressured because Rain was up in his grill. The Rosalina's I've been facing have been trying to play the star game so they keep launching luma over trying to distract or hit me while also trying to do those cheesy sandwich combos. I just perma stun him with lasers (although now that I think about it a fully charged laser could let you just down smash lock him with good timing) until they approach and I punish.

The MU seems to fall under your ability to deal with her aggression while finding creative ways to take care of luma because Rosalina is missing a lot of options that could otherwise stop you from following up on her efficiently. (if you want to think of it in the sense of luma is a second moveset limited to Luma must be alive and not in hit stun). I saw Choco doing more precise actions where there were certain conditions being met , due to 3ds circle johns I sometimes try not to get some of the ones I saw him do because of the accuracy and timing required. I need to practice my zair game because I don't always get them right so I commit to bigger moves to kill Luma T.T.

Gotta go into dat training mode xD.

 

[Disorient]

I saw Choco doing more precise actions where there were certain conditions being met , due to 3ds circle johns I sometimes try not to get some of the ones I saw him do because of the accuracy and timing required.

Gotta go into dat training mode xD.

Hm? Are you referring to his constant reversed lasers?
Yeah, the MU isn't as bad as I thought. I assume you were talking about the Umebura9 losers finals set?
I'd like to see other videos of good players playing this MU if you have them.

 

[pichuthedk]

Hm? Are you referring to his constant reversed lasers?
Yeah, the MU isn't as bad as I thought. I assume you were talking about the Umebura9 losers finals set?
I'd like to see other videos of good players playing this MU if you have them.

Well its not just that I personally like to do a lot of B-reverse lasers whether foxtrotting past people and doing it Along with turn around lasers while jumping (which is a much better option instead of just staying in one place because you can decide your commitment level on the charge), jumping backwards towards them and then doing it to shift the momentum and catch people slipping.

I never saw the loser finals yet unfortunately (I was still watching Rain VS Choco) I had to start the MU thread on Greninja but yeah. I will be sure to check it out for all I know it's some of the same things I do (Although I tend to be much more predictable the longer the match goes on).
I am just still experimenting with the ability to let the laser fly before it's even charged on moments notice to get that little extra % or grab follow ups.

Also I do have some matches with a non ******** rosalina who adapted quite well to my luma zoning and she was able to take a few games off me and changing how she was playing (literally matches where I'll 2 stock her and then she'll 2 stock me I saved the ones I won because I wanted to see what I was doing right. (Kinda sucks about the saved Replay # limit) I'll record a couple on my phone and upload em in a bit.

 

[RWB]

How is the Sheik matchup? It feels like Sheik has the tools to outdo Zero Suit Samus- Needles for annoying(better range than stun gun), equal speed, good airgame once you can pop ZSS into the air.

 

[YAYCONFORMITY]

ZSS is a versatile character and there is no one trick to beat her. Without knowing who you're using and the tactics being used against you, I'm not sure what you expect. I can offer a few tips.

1. Be aware that her grab range means certain attacks that would be safe against other characters are not going to be safe on her. She can even DI out of some jab combos and grab you. Conversely, her grab is slow so some moves that would not be safe against others will be safe against her.

2. She is vulnerable during down B. Aim for the peak of her jump, and smack her. She can't get a hitbox out at that point, so there isn't much that can be done if you read it right.

3. When she's charging her laser, if you turtle up in your shield, that's kind of what she wants. Depending on your character, you'll either want to back up, or shorthop over it and continue advancing.

4. Her dash attack is not safe. Depending on the spacing and your character, you can punish it. If the attack starts near your shield, run after her as she passes you and dash attack. If she uses it further away, use a ftilt in back of you after she passes, or DSmash depending on your character.

5. She doesn't have an attack that hits on both sides except for Utilt which has decent range. So, rolling behind her with the proper spacing can be effective. Obviously, you don't want to get too predictable with that.