How to outdo withdraw?

[Lil Puddin]

Kind of exactly like the Sonic problem I'm having with online players, except this one is worse. It's pretty hard to counter the move since it has super armor, is quick, and pretty much guarantees an easy 60%-80% against me thanks to ridonk delay since they can hit me, cancel, and just use a short hop attack. Rinse and easy repeat. So I'm trying to find a way to get around that.

So! Any tips on how to deal with dat shell as any of these characters?








Or should I just wait for the inevitable nerf? lol

 

[Jamwa]

Zelda - pivot grab
Shiek - pivot grab
Peach - pivot grab
Ivysaur - pivot grab
Jigglypuff - pivot grab
Ike - pivot grab
Samus - pivot grab

when squirtle is >40%, any hitbox that does more than 10% should hit him out of it.
grabbing characters at low percents is kinda staple in this game due to crouch cancelling, so you can think of withdraw as a mobile crouch cancel. im not sure about the armor mechanics of squirtle but i can say it's not super armor because he can be hit out of withdraw (not sure about nair/fsmash though)

 

[Burnsy]

Jamwa, that is not a reliable way of determining whether a move will break armor. Project Ms armor is not super whatsoever, it's a knockback value that when exceeded, renders armor useless. This is a different armor system from previous Smash games. Some moves that do 10+ damage have very little knockback (especially multihit) while others such as shine do very little damage but have a lot of kb even at low percents.

The best thing you can do is to deal with kb armor is understand how it works generally (less reliable the higher squirts damage is) and experiment with moves based on that to see what works and when.

 

[Daftatt]

the Inevitable nerf isn't going to be what you think... bum bum BUUUUMMMM!

Anyways, you could always just grab squirtle, the actual hitbox for w/draw isn't big, and most character's grab box will extend past it. Even so you could always trade with grab armor.

BTW, it's not Super Armor, just heavy armor. It goes through weak knock back moves and weak projectiles, and that's it.

 

[didds]

jump down air can work like a charm

 

[Lil Puddin]

jump down air can work like a charm

I noticed aerials work nicely, but the squirts I face usually jump out of their shell the moment they expect to hit me so they can bair. So 9/10 they aren't under me where my dair should be. That's mostly thanks to delay. I tried nair for Zelda and that works kinda good, but the back to back withdraws at close range pretty much destroy her.

Peach's side smash seems to work well when I can time it since it's one lump of damage. But if they see it coming they can just jump over me and start withdraw again, but they would be closer so it'd be harder to avoid.

 

[Salty Senpai]

Little puddin, I can't tell you how much I used to struggle against the withdraw approach.
The first thing to take into account is trying to read the withdraw.
Study your opponent and try to recognize when they like to withdraw. I pretty much know when the squirtles I play against are going to withdraw due to their spacing, and when you can predict the withdraw its a lot easier to deal with.
I used to shield the withdraw all the time, but like you said they'll just b-air you and repeat the shield pressure.
Then I thought out of shield options! At the time I was playing link a lot and I'd try to up-b oos but it was too slow =\ usually I'd just get b-aired anyways. Looking at the characters you play though, this strategy might work with samus cause her faster up-b (and possible invincible frames on start up? Not sure about that but read it somewhere.) Anyways I don't play too much samus so I've never tried this.
So eventually I stopped shielding the withdraw and started short hopping over it instead! Withdraw can no longer be turned around or jumped out of so once they pass you they either have to withdraw all the way off the stage or eat the laggy ending animation. If they opt to withdraw off the stage, bam, free edge guard opportunity. If they come out of withdraw on stage you can punish the animation by a) simply using an aerial if they pop out close to you or b) wave landing and chasing them down if they pop out a bit farther away.
There are a few easy character specific counters I've found as well.
Bowser with his crouch armor can just CC and down tilt withdraw all day.
As Mario, if you can read the withdraw its not too hard to time a down smash.
Falcon or Gannon, short hop d-air, follow up with free f-air
As Roy or Marth it's not too hard to space a WD back f-smash.
Anyways if you do still find yourself sheilding by reaction try WD OOS away from them right after the withdraw hits b4 they b-air.
Hope this helped.
I'm curious to see how other ppl are dealing with it.

 

[PlateProp]

Little puddin, I can't tell you how much I used to struggle against the withdraw approach.
The first thing to take into account is trying to read the withdraw.
Study your opponent and try to recognize when they like to withdraw. I pretty much know when the squirtles I play against are going to withdraw due to their spacing, and when you can predict the withdraw its a lot easier to deal with.
I used to shield the withdraw all the time, but like you said they'll just b-air you and repeat the shield pressure.
Then I thought out of shield options! At the time I was playing link a lot and I'd try to up-b oos but it was too slow =\ usually I'd just get b-aired anyways. Looking at the characters you play though, this strategy might work with samus cause her faster up-b (and possible invincible frames on start up? Not sure about that but read it somewhere.) Anyways I don't play too much samus so I've never tried this.
So eventually I stopped shielding the withdraw and started short hopping over it instead! Withdraw can no longer be turned around or jumped out of so once they pass you they either have to withdraw all the way off the stage or eat the laggy ending animation. If they opt to withdraw off the stage, bam, free edge guard opportunity. If they come out of withdraw on stage you can punish the animation by a) simply using an aerial if they pop out close to you or b) wave landing and chasing them down if they pop out a bit farther away.
There are a few easy character specific counters I've found as well.
Bowser with his crouch armor can just CC and down tilt withdraw all day.
As Mario, if you can read the withdraw its not too hard to time a down smash.
Falcon or Gannon, short hop d-air, follow up with free f-air
As Roy or Marth it's not too hard to space a WD back f-smash.
Anyways if you do still find yourself sheilding by reaction try WD OOS away from them right after the withdraw hits b4 they b-air.
Hope this helped.
I'm curious to see how other ppl are dealing with it.

Dont necro threads from half a year ago.

 

[Daftatt]

I used to shield the withdraw all the time, but like you said they'll just b-air you and repeat the shield pressure.

You can buffer a roll to escape this, just like against falco or fox's shield pressure.

HOWEVER, when squirtles start getting better expect to see waveland out of withdraw which can punish this roll. Waveland out of withdraw hit is tough to do but can cover effectively all options of the opponent if you land a withdraw on their shield.

Spotdodge can also work on most characters but squirtle could grab you if they don't bair.