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How to master Rosie?

GreatDave

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Hi buddies, for many reasons since I played SSB4 for the first time I decided Rosa had to be one of my mains. After Falco (historically my main in every SSB) and Wario (my favourite videogames character ever)...Rosa is one of my choices. I loved Super Mario Galaxies, and I like her very much.
Most of times, anyway, I use the blue bird or the fatty one...so I haven't had time to improve with Rosie.
So, if somebody could give me some advice I'd be very happy...

First of all, Luma helps to give sure hits at distance...but most of time I keep doing dash attack and various aerials. I couldn't find sure combos yet.
When Luma dies, the situation grows awful. She's so slow to fall, and so...easy to chase. Plus, her Down B is nearly useless VS characters who don't use projectiles...(or not?)...and Up B doesn't make damage:urg:

Some serious advice? Tactics? Combos and grabs? Kill moves?
Apart from neutral B (charged at max), and the smashes, how can I knock out the opponents? Surely Rosie has some secrets I haven't discovered yet!
 

ParanoidDrone

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She's really good at gimping. Launch Star lets her go deep offstage, like seriously it's insane. Nair, fair, bair, and dair all have a use in edgeguarding. Uair is a godly juggle tool and can kill surprisingly early if it's fresh/Rosalina has some rage built up.

Her down special customs are useful even without projectiles in play, Guardian Luma moreso. The hard part is remembering you have it and knowing when to use it.

I'll go and summon @ Parcheesy Parcheesy since we did some online friendlies last night and he exhibited a much better degree of control over Rosalina than I did, he'll probably have more input.
 

GreatDave

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Thanks buddy, I'm really interested if you know some combo (maybe how to chain grabs?).
I've still to check seriously the custom moves, but I tend to use the default moves 'cause I play For the Glory without customised characters.
 

MezzoMe

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Allright
I noticed that you ordered your mains in your signature based on the cronological order of their first appearence in the Smash series.
Anyway, I reccommend seeing this for moves' usefullness, techniques and other stuff.
Her combos aren't too many(at least that I know of) aside wombo combos:
UThrow->Uair
DThrow->Uair
D/BThrow->Fair
DTilt->DashAttack
Three-hit-jab combo->Uair
Mix of Utilts and Uairs with jumps in between each other
Regarding the kill moves, if Rosalina is alone only the FSmash and USmash K.O. Mario from the center of Final Destination without rage before 150%, other occasional finishers are:
  • BThrow near the ledge;
  • Uair near the blast line;
  • Dair spike.
Luma, on the other hand, has usually more range and knockback with most of his moves( most notably FSmash), and all of them hit after Rosalina's if they are togheter, as such, they will reliably kill even with them; one exception is his USmash, wich has less knockback than Rosalina's, but hits before hers and DSmash and Nair, wich will land only one hit upon the enemy depending on where he is(unless he shields), so other kill moves become:
  • Dair
  • Uair/UTilt wich, if done near the blast line with rage, cen K.O. at percentages as low as 16% (Inb4 shine kills at zero), though you must hit with the very first hitbox (kinda like Luigi's Up B)
And yes, Gravitational Pull is useless against enemies without projectiles, but can be useful even in team matches when your teammates have projectiles, that will act like AOE attacks, of course, you must have friendly fire on, so it won't work in online team battles.
And yes, Launch Star is easily edgeguarded unless your opponents makes an error, as such, your opponent mustn't. read where direction you are going to take.
Hope it helped, and welcome on the Rosalina boards.
Edit: in this game you cannot grab an opponent in the first 60 frames after you throw him, so chaingrabs don't exist unless there is an attack in between(but Rosalina can't anyway), however, you can read :4fox: reaction to an UThrow so you can grab him again at low percentages.
 
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Parcheesy

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I'll go and summon @ Parcheesy Parcheesy since we did some online friendlies last night and he exhibited a much better degree of control over Rosalina than I did, he'll probably have more input.
Trifling gnome! Your arrogance will be your arrogance will be your undoing!
*Cough*
First of all, Luma helps to give sure hits at distance...but most of time I keep doing dash attack and various aerials. I couldn't find sure combos yet.
When Luma dies, the situation grows awful. She's so slow to fall, and so...easy to chase. Plus, her Down B is nearly useless VS characters who don't use projectiles...(or not?)...and Up B doesn't make damage:urg:

Some serious advice? Tactics? Combos and grabs? Kill moves?
Apart from neutral B (charged at max), and the smashes, how can I knock out the opponents? Surely Rosie has some secrets I haven't discovered yet!
- Dash attack is a decent move, but it's probably her must punishable move when it doesn't hit ( assuming the opponent actually blocks all of the hits. Inexperienced people tend to get hit by the last two ). As a fairly aggressive Rosalina player myself, I tend to focus on shield pressure by hitting the opponent's shield with max distance tilts, forward smashes, and auto canceled luma aerials.

- As far as sure combos, I really haven't found many, but they are definitely out there with her literally lagless Luma attacks. First, I'd practice boost grabbing ( inputting a dash attack, then immediately inputting a grab afterwards ), which causes a Luma dash attack, and a Rosalina grab. I've also found success with the auto canceled Luma backair, followed by a dash grab. I'm not sure it's a combo, but it's fairly practical.

- Yeah...I'm pretty reliant on the little guy too, and things generally go pretty bad when I'm facing a Luma-hunter. My guess is just stall, and slow down the opponent however you can. If there's any consolation, your opponent will be looking to be more aggressive during this time, which makes them a bit easier to read. *shrug*

- You can kinda stall in the air with down b akin to shine, and it's useful in the air when b reversed into a back air. Still, I wouldn't use it more than once or twice against someone like a Captain Falcon.

- There are a few things about Rosalina's up b that make it pretty amazing as a recovery tool. First, you can generally go deeper offstage than your opponent, which means if they attempt to follow you offstage, you can just dip lower than they can recover, and they're forced to either jump back, or die, and if they don't follow, you have a huge amount of options in the angle and timing, so just avoid where you think they will aim. Oh, and Luma can attack once you're in free fall, or land on the stage, definitely don't forget that one ( I throw out a Luma aerial towards my opponent whenever I land on stage, there's no reason not to ).

- Rosalina up air, and Luma down air are pretty effective kill moves, and as Drone said, her edgeguarding is amazing. Keep in mind, you're generally going to be lighter than your opponent, and die earlier, so playing safe is key whether you're aggressive or defensive.

( Offtopic, but how do you guys feel about the bullet points? I think it makes posts neater, but if the general opinion is negative, I'll stop )


Edit:
And yes, Gravitational Pull is useless against enemies without projectiles, but can be useful even in team matches when your teammates have projectiles, that will act like AOE attacks, of course, you must have friendly fire on, so it won't work in online team battles.
Oh man, does that work? I mean, do the projectiles still retain all of their kill power? It sounds hilarious.
 
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MezzoMe

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Edit:

Oh man, does that work? I mean, do the projectiles still retain all of their kill power? It sounds hilarious.
Looking at this match at 3:40
It looks like it slighty weakens the projectiles, since a fully charged Mega Buster usually deals 20%, while there it did 17%, though that might be just because the MegaMan staled the move.
Edit: the attack was landed three times before that shot.
Meanwhile Lucario's at 69% fully charged Aura Sphere, on the other hand, restored 30% damage to the P1 Ness.
 
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GreatDave

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Thanks alot to MezzoMe (amazing, another italian here?) and Parcheesy. I must make muuuuuch practice, and the road to improvement will be really long. Rosie could seem a simple character to use, when I picked her for the first time she seemed to playable and "easy", but she hides tons of secret and strategy.
Apart from Neutral B, is there another way to throw Luma or to choose/establish where to place him?


Allright
I noticed that you ordered your mains in your signature based on the cronological order of their first appearence in the Smash series.
Eh eh, true...:grin:, but my first intenction was basically to place them in order of personal preference: Falco is my first main -the character I use most of times-, Wario the second one -I choose him often-, Rosie is the third one -I love her but I still choose her not so much, need practice-.;)
 
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Iron Kraken

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Granted, she's generally going to take longer to kill an opponent than other members of the cast, which is just part of her design.
Explain yourself? Between Rosie's second to none gimping game, the range and power of (Luma's) F-Smash and U-Smash, and U-Air juggles, I find that Rosie generally kills earlier than other members of the cast. Heck, even Rosalina/Luma's jab kills at a decently low % near the edge of the stage. And lest we forget the immense power of Luma's Dair. Luma's Dair is insane. Not only as an edge guarding tool, but even on the stage. (A demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkEtQji2Wzw#t=429 , time is at 7:09)

Of course, Rosie does get KOed early herself because of her size and weight, and the fact that she can have trouble returning to the stage safely. And that also means she doesn't get to be as rage as much as some other characters, which hurts her KO power... but overall I still think Rosie has no problem killing fairly early.

---

Overall though really good posts by @ MezzoMe MezzoMe and @ Parcheesy Parcheesy . I'm going to come back to this thread a bit later and give more general tips about Rosie.
 
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Parcheesy

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Well, half of it is having Charizard as a secondary. ;p

The other half is judging KO percents with Rosalina on the receiving end. What I should have said is that in any given match, you're going to have a lower death percent than your opponent because Rosalina is deceptively light. Will edit for clarity.
 
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MezzoMe

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Thanks alot to MezzoMe (amazing, another italian here?) and Parcheesy. I must make muuuuuch practice, and the road to improvement will be really long. Rosie could seem a simple character to use, when I picked her for the first time she seemed to playable and "easy", but she hides tons of secret and strategy.
Apart from Neutral B, is there another way to throw Luma or to choose/establish where to place him?
How you think that?
Location: My home(Italy)
Nah.
Anyway, I edited my first post:
It's the Nair that works like the DSmash, not the Uair.
Those are the two attacks where the two have different hitbox placement when together and facing the same direction(though if they are together they always face the same direction).
Also forgot to mention one thing about combos:
Her Fair has autolink angle, as such, you can fast-fall it and slam an opponent to the ground, starting a tech-chase.
If they don't tech you can:

  • DTilt
  • Jab reset, however it's unguaranteed
Needless to say, you can jab reset everytime you have an opponent slammed, however you can also jab lock with her Bair, by hitting with her chest, though you can't do it more than once before the forced get-up triggers and it's very impratical that you will do it on an unteched Fair, but you still have footstool jumps and platform slips.
In the guide I linked before, everything that is written to move Luma moves him, being him together with Rosalina or separated.
However, if they are together, Luma returns back to Rosalina as soon as he can, and if it's an aerial attack, he will move with her even in the middle of attack.
As such, the one thing that desynchs them effectively is jab cancelling the first two hits, anything else will most likely let Luma return to her and interrupt his advance he has from the repeated first two hits of the jab.
You can see this mostly used by Dabuz for edgeguarding and pressuring an opponent on the ledge safely since, as I said, Luma just comes back as soon as you stop jabbing.There are basically three cases:

  • The opponent hits Luma, Rosalina runs toward him and punishes the attack (or uses a FSmash if near enough);
  • The opponent tries to go over Luma, setting himself up for an USmash or FSmash from. Rosalina depending on spacing if he's not careful;
  • The opponent shields Luma's jabs and gets pressured by them.
Sample video from Dabuz:
 
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kk1127

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at low percents:
u-throw to u-tilt OR d-throw to f-air

once u get your opponent in the air make sure to follow them up with u-airs. you can get kills as early as 50% this way

you can follow f-smash and d-smash with f-tilt or d-tilt since these moves come out pretty fast

use d-smash and jab for edgeguarding if ur opponent tends to stay on the ground
n-air if they tend to jump more

BTW i learned most of these tactics from dabuz and jtails

heres a good rosalina tutorial video
youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DgZrPXiUw
 
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GreatDave

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Thank you for your advices. I'm gonna practice...maybe I'll discover one trick or two to tell here too...
I didn't know Luma's Dair were so powerful! Some questions:

1) Luma attacks automatically when I make Rosie attack, doesn't him?
2) In your posts I noticed you use very rarely neutral B...strangely I use it a lot, most of all to send my Luma over the edge in order to spike or gimp. And when it's charged to max, Luma can be very dangerous. Is there a way to cancel Neutral B once that Rosie is charging Luma?
3) Furthermore...how can I place Luma? The only way is neutral B or I can place him in other ways?
4) I noticed that Uair is a fast way to recall Luma to Rosie, isnt it?

Thanks buddies;)
 

kk1127

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1) yes, a good technique is to input an aerial attack (usually not u air or dair) right before rosie lands. you should see luma attack but rosalina's action will be canceled, allowing you to attack, shield or grab while luma is still attacking.
youtube.com/watch?v=b_9j9JULp8s (i still cant post links -__-)

2) even though it has great knockback and damage, I wouldnt use neutral b too often since luma wont be at your side anymore which is exactly what your opponents will want. only use it if its a sure hit.

besides rosalina has other great edgeguarding options both onstage and offstage
 

MezzoMe

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I already answered to 3), and the only way to recall a Luma sparkling is by using neutral B, Down B or waiting.
 

GreatDave

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Thank you very much, I had lost that. But reading your posts, I'm realizing that it's muuuch better keeping my Luma with me.
 

MezzoMe

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It heavily relies onthe match-up, actually.
Everytime you face someone that hasn't easy time facing Luma, it will translate in free damage to your opponent.
Vice versa, an enemy that can easily handle Luma alone will have trouble only in specific situations, and Luma must come back as soon as possible in order to not die worthlessy, as such, the afermentioned edgeguarding via jab cancelling becomes the only situation where it becomes useful in those match-ups.
 
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NightPeach

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I play Rosalina And Luma a lot and I think I know quite a lot about her. There are lot of things you can do with Rosalina... Like a LOT!!! Get ready for a really big post with lots of strategies.

-What I usually do to rack up some damage to the opponent is to use D-Throw then do F-Air. If an opponent can't be hit with D-Throw to F-Air, then I use U-Throw to U-Tilt.

-Luma.. Yes I know people say that they rely on Luma, but the problem is sometimes when you rely on him too much, you give focus to him and not on Rosalina. You have to give equal focus on both of them. I only focus on Luma a little bit more when my opponent is at high percentage or when I need help on doing combos/followups. Luma has great knockback when he hits, so he's pretty handy when the opponent's at high percentage.

-Combos, well as the other said before, Lunar Landing gives you lots of combo potentials.

-Don't use D-Air though or U-Air when landing, cause doing this will make you easy to punish, because of landing lag.

-D-Air is sometimes useful when Luma is somewhere around the opponent that's hitting you continuously. What I usually do when someone is Jabbing me I'd like to use D-Air while being stucked in Jabs like Sheiks's, because Luma can just D-Air and interrupt the opponent that keeps on hitting you. (Same goes with N-Air) (You can only do this if Luma is not being hit)

-Luma can also attack the opponent when your opponent is holding you. Lots of people who battled my Rosalina sometimes get interrupted with Luma's D-Tilt or his Jab when they hold me, thus never getting the chance to throw me.

-Also D-Air is a REALLY good edgeguard tool. I know some people mostly use N-Air or F-Air when edgeguarding, but I mostly use D-Air. I actually learned how to do a meteor smash with her D-Air, but it requires PERFECT timing and when it happens it feels so satisfying to hear that meteor smash sound. Remember that the meteor smash doesn't happen near Rosalina or Luma if he's with you, but it's no big deal if you use your D-Air when the opponent's near you, since Luma uses his strong D-Air, too, which sends them flying to the sides. You can find more about it here.

-F-Air and N-Air is also good for edgeguarding. Usually I use N-Air when the opponent is near the side blast zones, because there are lot of chance that you can hit the opponent to the blast zone with this move. I use F-Air when the opponent's above me. For me it's safer to use F-Air when you're hitting your opponent from above, since you can kill yourself easily when you use this as an edgeguarding tool below the stage.

-Calling Luma and sending him out is what makes Rosalina incredible and unique. She can attack at two places at once or she can have a while attack with two hits. Anyways when you send Luma out to your opponent, most people tend to jump over luma and try to aerial attack Rosalina, which makes it easier to shield grab them. Use this to your advantage. If they try to attack Luma, then call him back or make him attack before they do. I prefer using Side-B when sending Luma out, since it can be used for damage or just flinching the opponent, before they attack him. Sometimes they can be surprised with Luma, because he's very fast at sending out smash attacks too so don't use smash attacks a lot when Luma's by himself, so that the next time you do a smash attack they won't see it coming and should probably be unavoidable.

-When Luma's outside the stage or when his sent out offstage with the opponent, use smash attack there for early kills while they're trying to get back.

-Luma by himself can be great for edgeguarding. Like when the opponent don't want to come up the stage and stay on the ledge, send Luma to the edge and use D-Air and it will send them flying. You can also do this before they reach the edge, just time it correctly, though.

-Side-B is also useful when using it WITH Luma. For example you can use Side-B and flinch the opponent then quickly go in for a grab before they recover from flinch. This works almost anytime.

-Neutral-B is good for knocking opponent away. Also good for KOing. When you send your opponent above jump and fall with him/her while facing each other. While you're both falling down, charge it and when you both land, send Luma out and watch them fly away like a rocket. This only works if the player spams air dodging or just not fast enough to use shield when he/she lands. It doesn't work on some certain distances or if your opponent plans to use his/her second jump.

-Be careful when spot dodging attack when Luma is with you, because sometimes when they hit Luma and you spot dodge, Luma can delay their attack and by the time the delay is done, you'll be done spot dodging and you'll get hit.

-Her recovery is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!!!. She can reach great heights with it depending on how good you are at angling it. Some people say it's very predictable, but sometimes it just really isn't. They say that, because most people who use Rosalina use recover to get back in the middle of the stage or just have bad timing when to use it. When I use this I only go for the ledge and sometimes I go at the top of the stage when my opponent's trying to hit me when we're both offstage. Sometimes I trick them to use their edgeguard tool early (by using my second jump) and THEN use my recovery. Sometimes people just like to throw out D-Air when they're edgeguarding so it's the perfect time use it when they're done using D-Air. It's not also easy to hit her while she's free falling, because Luma can still attack. I've seen many players get hit with Luma's D-Air or N-Air when they're trying to punish me while free falling.

-Rosalina is also great at stalling, if Luma dies. For example you can stall when waiting for Luma to come back, by going under the stage (IF the stage doesn't have a wall below it) and just going back and forth the edges of the stage. It's very risky though, and it's hard to accomplish, so I do it only once. You can also just jump in the air or just avoiding every of your opponent's attack.

-Her's and Luma's Jab is good for quick punish. They can also do a jab pass. If Luma is slightly far away from Rosalina and your opponent is stuck in Rosalina's jab until he/she goes far away from her, luma can still continue hitting the opponent after he/she is done being hit by Rosalina's Jab. Just remember continue the jab after the opponent is done from Rosalina. So basically it's Rosalina's full jab to Luma's full jab to Luma's finishing jab and this has a lot of damage. You can also trap your opponent between Rosalina and Luma with jabs. The opponent will just be stuck in the middle for a little while while getting hit by both of them.

-Oh and her Up-Smash is good for KOing, but that's the only way I use it for.

-Her D-Smash is good for combos, too. For example. Send Luma out . When the opponent goes to you, hit them with Rosalina's D-Smash and they will get send to Luma's D-Smash. Sometimes the oppponent can also get sent back and forth between them which is REALLY cool to do AND watch. However this rarely happens so mostly it'll just be Rosalina D-Smash to Luma D-Smash and they'll be sent flying away. (While doing this try to pay attention to the damage percentage of the opponent and the distance between Rosalina and Luma)

-Her U-Air is really good for getting early KOs. I like to hit the opponent with Luma's U-Air and then the opponent will get sent to Rosalina's U-Air. Rosalina's U-Air is VERY strong when sending an opponent flying upwards, however the only strong part of it is when they get hit at the base of Rosalina's head. You can tell if it's strong or not by the sound it makes when the opponent gets hit.

-Gravitational Pull is insanely good when using it near the opponent who uses projectile. Since some projectile still have active hitboxes while being pulled by Rosalina's Down-B, it can still hit the opponent who used that projectile. For example... Robin's Thoron.. When Rosalina use Gravitational Pull and Robin used Thoron near her, but not too near, it will actually hit Robim while the Thoron is spinning around Rosalina. It's actually funny to see him get hit by this. Don't go too near as this will cancel the whole Thoron and never gets big. Another example is...Lol.. Megaman's D-Air. When you use Down-B with Rosalina when Megaman uses D-Air, Megaman' s hand will spin around you and if you get lucky it will hit him. It's funny how you can use his own hand to meteor smash/attack him.

-Sometimes there's a rare occurence when Luma can stay active just below the edge, which isa VERY good edgeguarding tool. I like to call this Luma's Lucky Edge/LLE (just needed a name for it). If you send Luma out, and when he tries to bounce back for a few times, it will fall. If it falls and he's not below the edge call him back. BUT if he falls and is just below the edge your opponent is trying to grab, stop him there by making him move. This is when you throw out attacks. While your throwing attacks it will also attack the person who's trying to recover and grab the edge from below or the sides. Stay near the edge, while Luma's guarding below to prevent your opponent to get back on stage in case they managed to pass Luma. Example: If LLE is happening when Link is trying to recover from below, keep on using D-Air. If Link is not below and in front of Luma, use Side-B,D-Smash, or F-Smash. If Link is above, well LLE is completely useless now, so now you have to use Rosalina's edgeguard tools. Remember. It HAS to be just below the edge. Not too low JUST below.

Well this is all for now. I'm just here trying to help. This is just what I mostly do so I understand if you prefer the other people's post about Rosalina.
 
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GreatDave

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Great post, NightPeach! Thanks for all these informations, tips and strategies...I'll try to make a treasure of your advices, I'll practice hard. Youre right, Luma gives Rosa tons of chances and strategies that other characters can only dream. It could seem difficult take care of both of them, no doubt that Rosie is one of the hardest character to master, but I love challenges;)

Thanks again, sure you spent muuuuch time to write all those stuff!
 

NightPeach

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Great post, NightPeach! Thanks for all these informations, tips and strategies...I'll try to make a treasure of your advices, I'll practice hard. Youre right, Luma gives Rosa tons of chances and strategies that other characters can only dream. It could seem difficult take care of both of them, no doubt that Rosie is one of the hardest character to master, but I love challenges;)

Thanks again, sure you spent muuuuch time to write all those stuff!
No Probs. I know Rosie may seem that hard at the beginning, but once you get used to her it'll seem like you're controlling one character. Remember that some of this strategies (especially LLE) are very hard to do. So just watch for Luma when you send him offstage, when LLEing. DO NOT try to LLE all the time or when you're in real danger. Usually for me, this happens sometimes, but other times Luma just won't cooperate with me.
 
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GreatDave

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Yeah, Rosie is hard to master properly and in a competitive way, but this is the reason I wanna learn. It's a challange. Then, of course, I love the character...she's adorable, by far better than Peach (and Daisy) :love:
 

NightPeach

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Yeah, Rosie is hard to master properly and in a competitive way, but this is the reason I wanna learn. It's a challange. Then, of course, I love the character...she's adorable, by far better than Peach (and Daisy) :love:
Well you're right she's a challenge. I'm a Peach main, so I'm not exactly sure that Rosalina is better than her, but it's your opinion. Lol
 
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