How to: marth spacing?

[L0G1C]

I know that Marth's spacing is really important to his game, and I want to get better at it, but I find it really awkward to jump and then move my right thumb to the c stick to help my aerial spacing game, and with ground spacing I just suck in general.

HOW exactly do you guys accomplish your spacing with marth? Is C-stick for aerials the only option? And on the ground, is there a visual queue for reference? Or is it a matter of just hitting A earlier (like when doing a dash attack) and aiming for the tip to just barely hit people? This is one of the things that is really preventing my game from elevating to the next level. I feel my lack of spacing gets punished severely, no matter how good i am at SHFFL, dash dancing, wavedashing, exercising options out of shield, etc.

 

[DJ _ICE]

Well generally, for Marth you want to stay away from them just enough to be in Tipper f-smash most of the time. The Melee Marth boards have SOO much content on spacing there, you should check it out.

Marth's methods of spacing are vital to his game, you want to stay in tipper range as said before but any closer and your opponent will probably have a chance to get in and start a combo/get you in a bad position. The plan in neutral for Marth is to:
1. Not approach from the air, if you're in the air and they're on the ground, you usually lose. No random approaching fairs or nairs, unless you know they will hit and are worth the risk.
2. Stay grounded, don't let them force you in the air, stay safe. Marth gets comboed pretty hard and has a hard time getting down from the air.
3. This may sound odd, but try not to use your sword too much in neutral. Dashdance or use wavedashed dtilts as pokes and when you find an opening, punish it hard.

Attacks that keep in you a good spot in neutral without commiting too hard are dtilts from wavedash, and grabs. Marth's main spacing technique though, is his great movement. When you get into proper spacing, you should start dashdancing in and out of their range. With dash dancing, you can approach, defend, intimidate, take stage, draw the opponent in, pressure, and also position yourself for anything else in the game. However, this works best once you have established respect from your opponent, having a solid punish game will make them more hesitant to attack you since they know that if they mess up, they'll get punished hard, making DDing more effective. Watch DrPP's Marth on proper dash dancing, he has one of the best DD games.

If you have any questions or are confused on comething, don't hesistate to ask.

 

[Yurya]

Watch this before if you have the time it can tell you more then I ever could in a post:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFCQIAnYUMM>

 

[ZexM]

Unfortunately, no. There are no visual ques when ground smashing. Arial combos should be done with the C-stick to ensure maximum speed. This is all things I'm sure you already know, but when it comes to spacing these attacks you really just have to practice and get punished. But don't misunderstand. Be punished for being too close, not for being too far away. You'll always rather hit your opponent rather than wiff an attack and be punished for it later.

This game favors more offensive play, so while you do want to hit the tip for the blade more often than not, you will still be able to knock them back and try spacing correctly once again. If you get punished for being too close, there is very little you can suffer from compared than if you miss and they go in for the grab or a nicely charged projectile.

For ground combos, first and foremost, you really shouldn't be using the dash attack anyways. There is too much frame time after the attack and is easily wiffed. Your ground combos should be limited to your tilts, forward smash for kills and punishment (this attack punishes your spacing the most compared to your tilts), your Shield Breaker (which can easily replace forward smash and can be done in the air) and your dancing blade combos. With the ground arsenal it will mitigate the amount of punishment you receive. Also in most situations your tilts are safe on wiffs. As for spacing, these attacks are very easy to space and hit with the tip all the time (except Shield breaker and Dancing Blade till combo 3).

Your ground game shouldn't be too hard to master, but you should certainly practice more with your aerial C-sticking. I hope I was able to help. Sorry to say, but for the lot of us Marth players, just knowing better is the first step to being unbeatable.

 

[ZexM]

Unfortunately, no. There are no visual ques when ground smashing. Arial combos should be done with the C-stick to ensure maximum speed. This is all things I'm sure you already know, but when it comes to spacing these attacks you really just have to practice and get punished. But don't misunderstand. Be punished for being too close, not for being too far away. You'll always rather hit your opponent rather than wiff an attack and be punished for it later.

This game favors more offensive play, so while you do want to hit the tip for the blade more often than not, you will still be able to knock them back and try spacing correctly once again. If you get punished for being too close, there is very little you can suffer from compared than if you miss and they go in for the grab or a nicely charged projectile.

For ground combos, first and foremost, you really shouldn't be using the dash attack anyways. There is too much frame time after the attack and is easily wiffed. Your ground combos should be limited to your tilts, forward smash for kills and punishment (this attack punishes your spacing the most compared to your tilts), your Shield Breaker (which can easily replace forward smash and can be done in the air) and your dancing blade combos. With the ground arsenal it will mitigate the amount of punishment you receive. Also in most situations your tilts are safe on wiffs. As for spacing, these attacks are very easy to space and hit with the tip all the time (except Shield breaker and Dancing Blade till combo 3).

Your ground game shouldn't be too hard to master, but you should certainly practice more with your aerial C-sticking. I hope I was able to help. Sorry to say, but for the lot of us Marth players, just knowing better is the first step to being unbeatable.

 

[L0G1C]

thanks for the input guys. its funny I have noticed just playing on my own how much I can do with just kind of slow dash dancing. gonna try to throw in some more dtilts. thanks again.

 

[ZexM]

NP!~ tilts are your friend!!!

 

[NoLife]

should u dash cancel ur tilts or do them out of a wavedash...cause i feel like dash cancel tilts r what the pros do but wavedashing is so much easier cause u dont hav to wait for marth to get out of his initial dash animation. which one do u guys do

 

[shadow0x0cloud]

The main way to maintain space with marth is quite obvious, you use your mobility. Marth has a long wave dash, long dash dance, and his short hop, while being higher than most other characters, grants him extra options for creating space.

When playing Marth, you want to stay at around tipper forward smash range, the "fsmash space". Its really important for you to learn this. The main complaint of people when they play marth is that they can never kill. Most characters early℅ kills are off of gimps, however marths fsmash kills extremely early. Learn ranges where you can wavedash and dash cancel into a tip fsmash.

I personally find marth should stop enemy momentum in order to keep them in specific places. Similar to trap characters on fighting games, however he repeatedly bullies you with disjointed, long normals until the opponent wants to stay away from the sword. Then you create the afformentioned fsmash space.

Marth has multiple ways of stop momentum. You can attack after a wavedash, walk, and dash. Wd, walking, pivoting, and dash canceling into tilts ( usually dtilt, up tilt or ftilt are more circumstantial) are great ways of baiting the opponent into approaching until you turn around and hit them. On the topic of baiting, many people say staying grounded with marth is the way to go. In most situations, this is true, however sh double fairs as well as fair/bair wavelands are really good. Marths sh aerials are best used right outside the opponents range when in neutral. From there you can punish their attempt to whiff punish or Waveland into to approach.

Idk what I'm typing. I tried to answer a question and wrote whatever came to my head.

 

[ZexM]

@ shadow0x0cloud Nah! It was good. I main Marth and know most of what you've said, but there is a lot of good advice here not only on spacing, but on Marth general play as well.

should u dash cancel ur tilts or do them out of a wavedash...cause i feel like dash cancel tilts r what the pros do but wavedashing is so much easier cause u dont hav to wait for marth to get out of his initial dash animation. which one do u guys do

DC Tilt, I feel, is the best way to go. I personally don't feel that wavedashing is the best way to mobilize Marth. Utilizing his far Dash Dancing/ Fox Trotting gives you better momentum than a wavedash and is also very deceitful. Wavedashing become very predicable when done, narrowing your mind games. Once again, this is just me. Besides that, the speed at which you can Dash Dance/ Fox-Trot into a DTilt is more aggressive spacing, giving you dominance of the center of the stage and puts pressure on your opponent. And DCing is easier to accomplish than a wavedash, so why go through the trouble if the easier solution may be more effective? "Do the least you need to do in order to accomplish the most" is a firm rule in martial arts.

 

[Jackson]

I do aerials with the C stick, but apparently Ken does them with A. Which method is better?

 

[LordShade67]

I do aerials with the C stick, but apparently Ken does them with A. Which method is better?

Whatever you're comfortable with, if you want MY personal opinion.

 

[Ben Hicks]

I have started using Z for my double SH fair