How to hit people that are behind you

[PChron]

I think one of the most interesting things about Ryu is the fact that he has far fewer moves for hitting people that are behind him than most characters. Only two moves have hitboxes that extend behind Ryu, his nair and his bair - both aerials. This means that every time you are not facing your opponent and you are not in the air, you are at a disadvantage. Not even Ryu's down smash hits behind him. This means that one of the principle methods of easy reading rolls is gone.

So how does a Ryu player deal with this? Well obviously spacing is incredibly important, more so than other characters. I'm not entirely sure what the best techniques for dealing with this are in general (the reason I'm making this thread), but my intuition is to spam short hop nair. The move comes out almost instantly and put the opponent in enough hitstun to at least turn and face the other character. Even if you don't manage to get a hit in you'll be in a better position to down smash -> shield breaker or whatever else you do.

 

[ArccJPO]

Tatsu can back hit.

True Shoryu/Hadou/Tatsu can be reversed.

 

[Elessar]

You could also use Focus attack. Focus attack can be reversed when you let go off B and you're invulnerable while charging it. This will protect you and allow you to punish opponents who are behind you. It can also be used to read rolls since, as it can be reversed or canceled you can punish the rolls. Besides, if your timing is off and your opponent manages to shield, Focus 2 is a shield breaker and Focus 3 ignores shields. Used as a reading tool Focus is basically all we need to punish players who roll over Ryu.

 

[PChron]

Tatsu can back hit.

True Shoryu/Hadou/Tatsu can be reversed.

Does Tatsu consistently have a hitbox behind it, or does it oscillate?

 

[ArccJPO]

Does Tatsu consistently have a hitbox behind it, or does it oscillate?

Constant. The only problem is, the tatsu travel, which means you are actually moving away. It's pretty hard to hit someone when you're getting away from him.

 

[PChron]

Constant. The only problem is, the tatsu travel, which means you are actually moving away. It's pretty hard to hit someone when you're getting away from him.

Also it's hard to use for reading rolls, the main issue being you fly for longer than you have active hitboxes. If you mess up the read you're going to get punished.

 

[ArccJPO]

Also it's hard to use for reading rolls, the main issue being you fly for longer than you have active hitboxes. If you mess up the read you're going to get punished.

It depends, I tend to use the weak variation, but using the hard one can give you some distance to avoid punishment.

 

[PChron]

You could also use Focus attack. Focus attack can be reversed when you let go off B and you're invulnerable while charging it. This will protect you and allow you to punish opponents who are behind you. It can also be used to read rolls since, as it can be reversed or canceled you can punish the rolls. Besides, if your timing is off and your opponent manages to shield, Focus 2 is a shield breaker and Focus 3 ignores shields. Used as a reading tool Focus is basically all we need to punish players who roll over Ryu.

This is interesting, but remember, Focus is not safe on multihit moves. So how does one use this to counter a Captain Falcon, rolling around and jabbing you?

 

[PChron]

Constant. The only problem is, the tatsu travel, which means you are actually moving away. It's pretty hard to hit someone when you're getting away from him.

I feel that either way this could be devastatingly exploited by a good rosaluma player.

 

[ArccJPO]

I feel that either way this could be devastatingly exploited by a good rosaluma player.

Hardly. Tatsu is actually pretty fast. I think Luma can't travel that fast in order to hit.

 

[Elessar]

This is interesting, but remember, Focus is not safe on multihit moves. So how does one use this to counter a Captain Falcon, rolling around and jabbing you?

That's why you need to use it to read and time the hit so it hits him as he finishes the roll and is vulnerable. This should be used to read rolls, not to attack someone who already is behind you. If that is the case, you can FADC away and reverse hadouken.

 

[Admiral_Dante]

Hardly. Tatsu is actually pretty fast. I think Luma can't travel that fast in order to hit.

yeah, and most rosa's wouldn't want to shoot luma at you anyway... maybe with luma warp custom.

 

[mimgrim]

Learn to B-reverse.

 

[Rakurai]

Tatsumaki is also a hardcore Luma killer due to how much fixed knockback it has.

 

[Darkmoone1]

This is interesting, but remember, Focus is not safe on multihit moves. So how does one use this to counter a Captain Falcon, rolling around and jabbing you?

If someones rolling around you Tatsu.
If someones shielding you either Side-Tilt hard press or FADC.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

http://vine.co/v/einLPK6bwOZ

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

http://vine.co/v/einLPK6bwOZ

Sheik's Nair extends her hurtbox that much!?
I know Ryu's Strong Up Tilt has a big hitbox above him but wow.

 

[ArccJPO]

http://vine.co/v/einLPK6bwOZ

Oh wow! Fiercy Utilt for the win I guess. Screw Tatsu.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

To be clear, I think the screwiness of that exchange can be attributed more to Shiek than Ryu. I tested u-tilt a little and couldn't produce an example that looked as absurd as that one.

 

[PapaJ]

That also might have been Bair? I know Bair extends her hurtbox stupidly far. Seems like a one in one million shot though.

 

[Elessar]

It was her bair's fault. Ryu has no disjoints and no hitbox behind him, so that was entirely her hurtbox being extended by her bair and H utilt's priority.

 

[PapaJ]

It was her bair's fault. Ryu has no disjoints and no hitbox behind him, so that was entirely her hurtbox being extended by her bair and H utilt's priority.

Just tested shieks Nair, Fair and Bair. It was her Bair that allowed her to get hit, it was on one of the earliest frames so it looked like Ryu's Strong Utilt connected to nothing. Her other aerials hurtboxs are fine and dont cause what we saw in the vine to happen

 

[Elessar]

Just tested shieks Nair, Fair and Bair. It was her Bair that allowed her to get hit, it was on one of the earliest frames so it looked like Ryu's Strong Utilt connected to nothing. Her other aerials hurtboxs are fine and dont cause what we saw in the vine to happen

What saddens me is the possibility that people might complain about Ryu for stuff like this and he'll get needlessly nerfed.

 

[PapaJ]

What saddens me is the possibility that people might complain about Ryu for stuff like this and he'll get needlessly nerfed.

Yeah but even though people complain about shiek she has gotten....less than substantial nerfs lol. Ryu does have his weaknesses it's just that people need to play intelligently and not blindly. He can hit behind him, Focus is the only move that technically can and it takes 31 frames to get to lvl 2 meaning you need to read a roll or dash attack. He can B-reverse moves to watch out but unlike other moves that automatically do that a Ryu player will need to put in some forethought. Still not impossible just a bit harder. He has trouble KOing and because he racks damage opponents can use rage to make a comeback. Don't get me wrong he certainly is good but he's not flawless.

 

[Elessar]

Yeah but even though people complain about shiek she has gotten....less than substantial nerfs lol. Ryu does have his weaknesses it's just that people need to play intelligently and not blindly. He can't hit behind him, Focus is the only move that can and it takes 31 frames to get to lvl 2. He has trouble KOing and because he racks damage opponents can use rage to make a comeback. Don't get me wrong he certainly is good but he's not flawless.

I agree, but there are other chars who have gotten nerfs even though they didn't need them solely due to the outcry of FG scrubs.

 

[mimgrim]

He can't hit behind him, Focus is the only move that can and it takes 31 frames to get to lvl 2.

Learn to B-reverse.

 

[PapaJ]

Lol ok yeah i should rephrase the better.

I agree, but there are other chars who have gotten nerfs even though they didn't need them solely due to the outcry of FG scrubs.

Yeah, hopefully time will tell. Sadly none of the DLC characters will be usable at EVO so we won't see any new tech or see how well they do with the rest of the cast. We don't know when we will be egtting the next two characters, it was speculated we had 6 slots and we've used 4 already, so hopefully it's a while and people aren't complaining about the new DLC character for the sake of complaining.

 

[Elessar]

Lol ok yeah i should rephrase the better.



Yeah, hopefully time will tell. Sadly none of the DLC characters will be usable at EVO so we won't see any new tech or see how well they do with the rest of the cast. We don't know when we will be egtting the next two characters, it was speculated we had 6 slots and we've used 4 already, so hopefully it's a while and people aren't complaining about the new DLC character for the sake of complaining.

People complained about Ryu literally minutes after he was released. People love to complain for the sake of complaining.

 

[CopShowGuy]

His utilt-1 hits the area immediately behind him.