Smash 3DS How to get good at neutral?? Also landing

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

I main Meta Knight. That is a good character of mine, being a rush-down, in-your face character. However, I always get walloped in neutral. I know the rock paper scissors thing, (sheild, grab, attack) but I can never seem to choose right and get my butt whooped. I can never seem to punish a roll either.

Side question: how to you land onstage without getting juggled?

 

[MarioManTAW]

While I rarely play Meta Knight, here are some things I can suggest.

For punishing a roll, your best tool as MK is probably D-smash, assuming you don't know exactly when & where the roll will end.
If getting juggled is a problem, MK's best tools to deal with it would probably be Nair, Dair, Neutral-B, and Down-B.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Those are two incredibly vague questions. The Neutral game is way too complicated of a concept for anyone to explain it so briefly, and it's also not something you can simply "get good" at. You cannot practice your Neutral game, you practice a bunch of different things that form your own Neutral game that is effective in different ways to the situations you are up against. In a way, this comes with matchups studies, matchup experiences, knowing your character well, and recognizing predictable situations at the neutral game, and knowing what to do in them. Basically: pressing the right buttons at the right time.
If you want to "improve at the neutral", the closest thing you can do is learning your character inside and out and then studying whatever MU you'll be up against. This is very far from the only thing Neutral encompasses, but it's a start. You don't go to the gym on your first day and lift 80KG.
You could watch this video and it could help diagnose some of your issues:

Now your second question: It depends. You need to find a way to mix up how you fall to the ground after you started getting juggled. Do double jumps, airdodge unpredictably, use moves that stall you in the air, or if you have the frame data or hitboxes for it, throw a move at them. This is hard. It varies from situation from situation, character to character and person to person.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

While I rarely play Meta Knight, here are some things I can suggest.

For punishing a roll, your best tool as MK is probably D-smash, assuming you don't know exactly when & where the roll will end.
If getting juggled is a problem, MK's best tools to deal with it would probably be Nair, Dair, Neutral-B, and Down-B.

Great, thanks! Now, I see you main villager, so I'm guessing you know a lot about this. What is the best way to punish projectiles?

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Those are two incredibly vague questions. The Neutral game is way too complicated of a concept for anyone to explain it so briefly, and it's also not something you can simply "get good" at. You cannot practice your Neutral game, you practice a bunch of different things that form your own Neutral game that is effective in different ways to the situations you are up against. In a way, this comes with matchups studies, matchup experiences, knowing your character well, and recognizing predictable situations at the neutral game, and knowing what to do in them. Basically: pressing the right buttons at the right time.
If you want to "improve at the neutral", the closest thing you can do is learning your character inside and out and then studying whatever MU you'll be up against. This is very far from the only thing Neutral encompasses, but it's a start. You don't go to the gym on your first day and lift 80KG.
You could watch this video and it could help diagnose some of your issues:

Now your second question: It depends. You need to find a way to mix up how you fall to the ground after you started getting juggled. Do double jumps, airdodge unpredictably, use moves that stall you in the air, or if you have the frame data or hitboxes for it, throw a move at them. This is hard. It varies from situation from situation, character to character and person to person.

What I meant by "nuetral" is the little quarrel of sheilding, rolling, grabbing, and attacking on the ground, so you can get in and start a combo. For instance, I would want to get in with the d-throw perfect pivot b-air (see BSD) but a grab is way to hard to get.

 

[Nah]

If you main Meta Knight, asking the Meta Knight boards is a good idea as they could give you more Meta Knight-specific advice.

Like Family Team said, neutral is a very broad and complicated concept, and so I don't know if I could really help you there. All I can say is maybe try not being so rush down-y and see if that does anything for you (but it might not, I really don't know much about MK).

Landing tho is a different matter. The key to landing is mixing it up. Meta Knight is in a decent position to do this as you have multiple jumps and Dimensional Cape to help you out. Be aware though that there are times where it's best to fall back to the ledge and fight your way back from there rather than straight land onstage.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Avoid double posting, the mods don't like it.
I think you're not really looking at the right things to prioritize. You already seem to be thinking of what you want to do in your advantage state and improving your punish game, and that is not neutral, and if it was, at your level, this isn't the stuff you should be focusing on.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Avoid double posting, the mods don't like it.
I think you're not really looking at the right things to prioritize. You already seem to be thinking of what you want to do in your advantage state and improving your punish game, and that is not neutral, and if it was, at your level, this isn't the stuff you should be focusing on.

Alright, I will try to be more patient, and mix up down B to keep my opponent on my toes, as well as spot dodging more. Thx for the help.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Alright, I will try to be more patient, and mix up down B to keep my opponent on my toes, as well as spot dodging more. Thx for the help.

Like I said in my first post, the best thing you probably can do right now is focus on learning everything about your character and how it plays against other characters.
You might think you already know enough about your character, but the deeper you go, the more you'll realise that there's a lot to learn.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Like I said in my first post, the best thing you probably can do right now is focus on learning everything about your character and how it plays against other characters.
You might think you already know enough about your character, but the deeper you go, the more you'll realise that there's a lot to learn.

I have been watching a bit of competitive play (Airlift) (and though I know it is nowhere near my level) I noticed some MK's play "patient-aggressive", by baiting, waiting, and pressuring when you do go in (I'm asking you about this because Mario can be similar sometimes.) Now< I know these characters are not the SAME, but they have great punishes. Do you find this effective?

 

[Ælude]

Your whole attitude and approach appears to be the issue to me. Alot of people aren't as lucky as you to recieve great advice like familyteam is giving.

Shame.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I have been watching a bit of competitive play (Airlift) (and though I know it is nowhere near my level) I noticed some MK's play "patient-aggressive", by baiting, waiting, and pressuring when you do go in (I'm asking you about this because Mario can be similar sometimes.) Now< I know these characters are not the SAME, but they have great punishes. Do you find this effective?

I am not a MK main, but when I was pondering about the original question posed in the thread and showed it to friends to see if they knew how to reply better than I could, they told me MK is not actually a rushdown to begin with. This is why I told you to study your character: Maybe you'll find out there are more effective ways at using Meta Knight that you're gonna find out.

Your whole attitude and approach appears to be the issue to me. Alot of people aren't as lucky as you to recieve great advice like familyteam is giving.

Shame.

I don't really mind explaning. Long as he has questions and is willing to listen, I'll still be here.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Your whole attitude and approach appears to be the issue to me. Alot of people aren't as lucky as you to recieve great advice like familyteam is giving.

Shame.

I'm sorry. I am REALLY frustrated because after 1 year of for glory, my win% has gone up 10%. Again, I apologize, and i will try to be more patient.

 

[Ælude]

I'm sorry. I am REALLY frustrated because after 1 year of for glory, my win% has gone up 10%. Again, I apologize, and i will try to be more patient.

That will happen when you try and use FG to try and get any sort of accurate measurement to your skill level.

Im not saying don't play FG. Im saying don't have the mentality and expectations of a competitive player if your only exposure to the game is FG. You inevitability will become frustrated.

EDIT: this games also been out for 2 years. Explain to me how you expect to currently beat a bunch of people who have been playing twice as long as you when your using the worst medium for improvement. Sometimes we have to be patient and realistic with our goal setting.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I'm sorry. I am REALLY frustrated because after 1 year of for glory, my win% has gone up 10%. Again, I apologize, and i will try to be more patient.

Well, that's the problem, really. For Glory. It does not help you improve at all. You should really work on finding a practice partner - either finding people in real life that can play with you who are about your level, so you two can learn together and improve as a whole much quicker than you ever could alone, or finding someone online who is willing to walk you through the game, play with you, judge you and help you improve.
I play on 3DS sometimes (though only really for fun nowadays after I switched to Wii U completely) so you can ask me stuff.

About the neutral... think about it like this: Asking "what do I do in Neutral?" is like asking "what do I do in football when I have the ball?".
Sure, the short answer is "You win neutral" and "Don't lose the ball", but notice how vague those are. Although that's the easy way out of that question, it's not the answer. The answer is complicated, because it's dynamic. It changes depending on what is the current situation, and what is going on, what is your objective at that period and what you can do to win it. Only you know the answer of how you can win neutral, and everyone has to find it themselves in one way or the other.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Like I said in my first post, the best thing you probably can do right now is focus on learning everything about your character and how it plays against other characters.
You might think you already know enough about your character, but the deeper you go, the more you'll realise that there's a lot to learn.

After a bit of looking, Meta Knight is best in the air and offstage, sort of an anti- little mac. He seems to do a lot of hovering around the opponent, and will quickly dash towards the opponent and punish. So spacing is essential. No wonder I was getting the neutral messed up, because MK is not meant for up close and personal. I included a video of MK vs Marth, so it would be cool if you told me what you noticed, since you main a clone of him. What do you find to be effective? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJaKktV3bgY&t=21s

 

[FamilyTeam]

How Meta Knight plays the Marth/Lucina is something that the folk over at the Meta Knight boards and his discord would know how to answer much better than I ever could. I'm yet to study the Lucina vs. MK match up, but even if I had studied it already, all I would be able to tell you personally is how the matchup is played on my end, not yours.
What you can do now is what a lot of videos of him and then try to see what the more advanced players do that earns them victories, and what they to that doesn't work and ends up making then get punished.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Choose one at a time and take it in SLOWLY.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Beat me to it. I was about to post a few of those.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Beat me to it. I was about to post a few of those.

The last one is my fav :3 very vintage and old-school

 

[MarioManTAW]

Great, thanks! Now, I see you main villager, so I'm guessing you know a lot about this. What is the best way to punish projectiles?

Depends on the projectile, as well as your position relative to your opponent. First of all, let me say that this will be a good bit harder without having a projectile of your ow, so this advice is specifically for characters who lack a projectile altogether. Without knowing what specific match-ups you're struggling with, I'll just go over the projectiles of Villager, Mega Man, and the Links.

Villager:
Villager's side-B is a slow move, so it's pretty easy to deal with. Your best options: shield, roll past, roll away, jump, down-B (as MK) or airdodge. Use your shield or roll away if you think Villager is going to approach, then counter-attack when he approaches (beware of getting grabbed if you shield though). Shield can also be used to punish a side-B at close range (shield it, then press attack while in your shield to grab). Airdodge should probably only be used if you are already in midair, in which case, you are likely too far away too punish, but if the Villager is close, you may be able to airdodge and hit him with an air attack (depends on the relative position, but will most often be forward air). For a more aggressive punish, you can either roll past or jump over the rocket. If you choose to jump, you will likely need to airdodge to avoid an incoming slingshot, which would put you in the same situation as above. If you instead roll past the rocket, you have immediate access to whatever punish you feel appropriate. As Meta Knight, you can also use Down-B to avoid the projectile. The attacking form of Down-B can be used as a punish itself, while the non-attacking form will make it more difficult to get a consistent punish, but more likely to avoid getting hit (unless the Villager reads your direction).

And after writing the above wall of text, I realize that I'm going to have to finish this later.

 

[Victory.IsMyDestinySSB4]

Depends on the projectile, as well as your position relative to your opponent. First of all, let me say that this will be a good bit harder without having a projectile of your ow, so this advice is specifically for characters who lack a projectile altogether. Without knowing what specific match-ups you're struggling with, I'll just go over the projectiles of Villager, Mega Man, and the Links.

Villager:
Villager's side-B is a slow move, so it's pretty easy to deal with. Your best options: shield, roll past, roll away, jump, down-B (as MK) or airdodge. Use your shield or roll away if you think Villager is going to approach, then counter-attack when he approaches (beware of getting grabbed if you shield though). Shield can also be used to punish a side-B at close range (shield it, then press attack while in your shield to grab). Airdodge should probably only be used if you are already in midair, in which case, you are likely too far away too punish, but if the Villager is close, you may be able to airdodge and hit him with an air attack (depends on the relative position, but will most often be forward air). For a more aggressive punish, you can either roll past or jump over the rocket. If you choose to jump, you will likely need to airdodge to avoid an incoming slingshot, which would put you in the same situation as above. If you instead roll past the rocket, you have immediate access to whatever punish you feel appropriate. As Meta Knight, you can also use Down-B to avoid the projectile. The attacking form of Down-B can be used as a punish itself, while the non-attacking form will make it more difficult to get a consistent punish, but more likely to avoid getting hit (unless the Villager reads your direction).

And after writing the above wall of text, I realize that I'm going to have to finish this later.

That's fine! This was really helpful. More power to ya.