How to get better?

[Eaarrl]

Recently I've going through Youtube and haven't found any videos that teach you how to play. People that actually explain how to play not tell you what you need to learn how to do. I learned how to SH and Z cancel and Tech but have no idea how to apply these techniques. Just curious to see if anyone can link me to good videos or tell me how they learned how to play. How you became really good? I'm just frustrated because I keep getting owned by my brother.

 

[Sangoku]

At your level, your best bet is to play better people. Either online or console. Where do you live?

 

[Eaarrl]

I live in Los Angeles. Is online play really that helpful?

 

[MrMarbles]

I live in Los Angeles. Is online play really that helpful?

online play is extremely helpful

 

[Eaarrl]

online play is extremely helpful

online play is extremely helpful

How long did it take you to get the hang of the game? The competitive side?

 

[MrMarbles]

that's kind of a tricky question because i have so much more improving to do but i guess it took about a month to get a basic understanding of most strategies and how to fight in most match ups

 

[Kimimaru]

How long it takes is directly proportional to how much time and effort you put into it. To learn how to apply the techniques, follow these simple steps:

We'll use Z-Cancelling as an example.

1. Identify what the technique does
- Z-Cancelling cuts out all the lag from an aerial move, thus leaving you only with the lag from your landing animation
2. How can the technique help
- Z-Cancelling enables you to recover much quicker from your aerials and thus leaves you less vulnerable. It can also be used to link aerials into other moves that wouldn't normally combo if you hadn't Z-Cancelled
3. How hard is it to perform the technique
- Z-Cancelling is very easy; simply press Z before you land from an aerial move
4. Assess the worth of mastering it (difficulty:gain ratio)
- Since Z-Cancelling is very easy and extremely helpful, it should be a technique I should master

This isn't to say that you shouldn't master other difficult yet situational techniques; I'm just suggesting you to focus your attention on the essential ones first. After you have those down, see how you do against others and check which other techniques may improve your performance and work on those.

As for getting better in general: play more. Experience is a lot more helpful than watching videos of other players. I also recommend recording your matches and showing them to others so they can critique your play and offer advice.

 

[Kabutox]

Just learn shorthop double laser with fox, combine that with upsmash and upair and you're ready to 5 stock your brother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPsfAMEmbng

Kind of like that, just do the second laser lower because these are horrible. (Takes some practice)


Or just learn falcon's upsmash + upair + up B.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUKIqnz6-4w

Or the easiest one... Pick kirby, and just spam uptilt! After they get too high %, knock them away in the air! Keep them from coming back with your downair. You won't even have to learn Z-cancelling and all that stuff, you can even mash uptilt and forward smashes when you hit your opponent's shield, it'll simply break. Marvelous, isn't it?

Also, stop rolling.

The combination of these things will improve your skill by ± 650%, without any real effort!!

 

[Sedda]

If you're going to play online to improve, stay away from people who will simply destroy you and not give you any tips. I get destroyed ALL the time. I suck, but I don't mind at all. It's to be expected, but at least make sure to ask you opponent what was it that you didn't do right and you'll be improving on a daily basis.

 

[B Link]

Online is good for learning basic techniques you've never seen before. Afterwards, real deep improvement comes offline. Lots of online techniques fail bad offline.

 

[MrMarbles]

Online is good for learning basic techniques you've never seen before. Afterwards, real deep improvement comes offline. Lots of online techniques fail bad offline.

Like what?

 

[Fireblaster]

Like what?

Spamming tilts and grabs that can be beaten with proper timing.

 

[MrMarbles]

i dont see how that would work online either unless u are playing agaisnt bad people, in which case its an issue of skill level rather than offline vs online

 

[clubbadubba]

sometimes I tell myself that would be able to achieve better timing if I was playing offline without delay, but I'm pretty sure its just me johning to myself lol. The other player gets better timing offline as well. I don't actually buy it.

 

[Fireblaster]

i dont see how that would work online either unless u are playing agaisnt bad people, in which case its an issue of skill level rather than offline vs online

sometimes I tell myself that would be able to achieve better timing if I was playing offline without delay, but I'm pretty sure its just me johning to myself lol. The other player gets better timing offline as well. I don't actually buy it.

Input lag simply changes the game. If you see a pikachu spamming defensive utilts, you would have a certain amount of time in which you notice this and calculate when to go in. In online, you also have to factor the input lag into your calculation, which is another source of error that can mess you up and therefore it makes the utilt spam stronger.

How about tech chasing? Let's say that with your character matchup, you have a total of 300 ms to start running to tech chase your opponent. Let's also say that you have 260 ms reaction time (which is really fast). This gives you plenty of leeway on reacting to the tech chase and getting it every time. If you had 3 frames of input lag, that's an extra 50 ms (16.67 * 3) of reaction time added on. All of a sudden you have 310 ms of reaction time and cannot react to a techchase that requires 300 ms. Then you are forced to guess and what was considered guaranteed damage is no more and this changes the matchup.

It's really silly to think that there aren't tactics that work online and not offline.

 

[clubbadubba]

I've never actually met or played anyone online who I later played offline and noticed a significant difference in the effectiveness of their strategies. Any examples of specific players that get nerfed on console? I'm really just curious because I can't think of anyone who we have evidence of doing this.

 

[Fireblaster]

I've never actually met or played anyone online who I later played offline and noticed a significant difference in the effectiveness of their strategies. Any examples of specific players that get nerfed on console? I'm really just curious because I can't think of anyone who we have evidence of doing this.

I'm not saying this has happened to any specific player because there is too little data to have evidence of this. But what I simply said was an objective argument as to why input lag can have a significant effect on changing the game.

 

[Cobrevolution]

*raises hand*

 

[Sangoku]

Guys, seriously... This isn't a online vs console troll thread, so keep that **** out of here. The dude asked how to improve and he is (from what he says) by NO MEANS at the level of someone caring about 50ms less to techchase.

All he needs to do is play a lot and against better opponents. If he can achieve this online or offline is irrelevant per se, although the best bet would be online (more players, more time flexibility).

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

seriously clubba?

 

[clubbadubba]

I was just curious jeez guys.

Back on topic, Eaarrl you just need to play against players that know what they are doing in order to see how to apply all those techniques. If the best person you have to play against is your brother and he doesn't use advanced techs, then your best bet is probably to play online right now.

 

[Eaarrl]

I was just curious jeez guys.

Back on topic, Eaarrl you just need to play against players that know what they are doing in order to see how to apply all those techniques. If the best person you have to play against is your brother and he doesn't use advanced techs, then your best bet is probably to play online right now.

Thanks. I know I should get online and play but right now I feel like if I do I'll just get destroyed. All I'm doing right now is basically trying to master Z-cancelling and basic movements.

 

[Eaarrl]

BTW if anyone can tell me how to SHDL that would be great.*Bill Lumbergh voice*
Right now I'm just spamming B while SH but I need to know if there's some sort or rythme or timing to get down.
P.S Thanks for the input guys and or girls. :D

 

[clubbadubba]

shdl is all about timing. Probably the easiest thing to do is to slide your thumb from the left-c button to the b-button in one motion to do the s-hop and fire the first laser. Then you just need to time it and press the b-button a second time to fire another laser before you land. If you can get that first laser out right away, you have plenty of time to fire the second one, its really just a matter of practice.

 

[duncs]

just keep playing. mastery comes with experience. simply put.

oh, and a million other things.

 

[Eaarrl]

shdl is all about timing. Probably the easiest thing to do is to slide your thumb from the left-c button to the b-button in one motion to do the s-hop and fire the first laser. Then you just need to time it and press the b-button a second time to fire another laser before you land. If you can get that first laser out right away, you have plenty of time to fire the second one, its really just a matter of practice.

I've been practicing for a while. I've been able to do it but not consistently. I FH more than I want to but I guess I'll be able to fix this with practice. Thanks man.

 

[B Link]

Yeah I still mess up the sh part and struggle to get the 2nd laser out sometimes. And I've been playing for a couple of years now.

SHDL is not easy. I do think I've gotten a bit better since I first started caring about it (maybe 2-3 years ago). But it took a really long time.

In fact I can only recall 3 (maybe Han Solo as well? Can't remember) players at the moment who can unleash it on demand with like 99% accuracy. And they've been playing since pre-2007 lol.

 

[Battlecow]

initial shallow learn-to-play-competitively stuff comes online

deep improvement also comes online

online is the alpha and the omega of improving, console's cool but really not nearly as important for training purposes. For competing purposes it's dank tho.

Also Han started in like 2011 lol

 

[B Link]

Read the whole thread dude, and read my 2nd post properly.

 

[mixa]

About short hop double laser:

Until very recently I was doing SHDL like a noob. I'd just spam all three inputs. If you break it down you'll see it's not that hard.

The second laser is the easiest part. I think people find it hard because between input 1 and 2 (short hop - first laser) the timing is strict, but between 2 and 3 (1st laser - 2nd laser), you have a lot of time, which is how you regulate the 2nd laser's height.
So you might find yourself pressing all inputs really quickly, which makes it easier to mess up and might make you miss the second laser because you were so fast when double hitting the B button.

Not that you can't simply spam B. But in the long run that's bad 4 u.

 

[Eaarrl]

I seriously can't deal with this anymore man. I just played my brother again (10 stocks) and I just get obliterated. Like I don't even stand a chance . It's so frustrating. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I keep practicing and practicing and I feel like I don't see improvement. I lost by at least 6 stocks every match. I can't stand this.

 

[Eaarrl]

Btw way I wrote that up there because I was angry but I'm chill now. I guess I just need to work on my spacing or something. Any ideas?

 

[<Fruity>]

Watch vids and play with slightly better players than you.

 

[Villainy]

I agree with other people that online is what makes you improve the most. I saw results very quickly.
Couple quick questions though:
What character does your brother play? Also who do you play?

Also you have items off and you're not doing any sector z bull**** right?

One more thing. 5 stock matches is the standard... 10 seems like way too much. But what ever floats your boat.

 

[clubbadubba]

yea tell us what character matchup you are playing and we'll give you all the juicy tips. Btw you really should play online. There are some people that will really destroy you, but there are probably other people that you might even be able to beat. There is a wide array of competition to choose from online.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

In my experience (which was pretty recent) you get worse after learning advanced techs before you get better. If you are focusing too much on short hopping or Z-cancelling it will detract from your game. However, once these things are comfortable, it will be totally worth it. I found that when I started learning stuff, I struggled greatly against my casual friends, more so than when I was a casual as well. But now that I'm comfortable with the techs, it allows me to outplay them to such an extent that a game against most casuals is a joke.

Bottom line, keep practicing and don't expect immediate results. Once you get mindlessly comfortable with the basics (SH, Z-cancel, ledge hop, pivot), your brother won't stand a chance. This could take a few months or even a year depending on how often/hard you practice.

Then you do it all over again with the next tier of techs...

 

[Eaarrl]

yea tell us what character matchup you are playing and we'll give you all the juicy tips. Btw you really should play online. There are some people that will really destroy you, but there are probably other people that you might even be able to beat. There is a wide array of competition to choose from online.

I play as Kirby and sometimes choose Link. (I love playing with Link the most) and He plays with Yoshi and Pikachu. Yoshi when he's calm and he picks Pikachu when he gets real salty.

 

[Eaarrl]

In my experience (which was pretty recent) you get worse after learning advanced techs before you get better. If you are focusing too much on short hopping or Z-cancelling it will detract from your game. However, once these things are comfortable, it will be totally worth it. I found that when I started learning stuff, I struggled greatly against my casual friends, more so than when I was a casual as well. But now that I'm comfortable with the techs, it allows me to outplay them to such an extent that a game against most casuals is a joke.

Bottom line, keep practicing and don't expect immediate results. Once you get mindlessly comfortable with the basics (SH, Z-cancel, ledge hop, pivot), your brother won't stand a chance. This could take a few months or even a year depending on how often/hard you practice.

Then you do it all over again with the next tier of techs...

I feel the same way. Before I learned all the advanced techs we pretty much ended up going even but now I feel like I get destroyed all the time. lol

 

[breakthrough]

I feel the same way. Before I learned all the advanced techs we pretty much ended up going even but now I feel like I get destroyed all the time. lol

Is he using advanced techniques too and practicing them?

 

[Eaarrl]

Is he using advanced techniques too and practicing them?

No. But he's not a dumb player. He spaces pretty well.