How to edgaurd Falco/fox

[Livevil200]

Just a few questions. I know its not that difficult, but i'd like some valid responses on this board seeing as most of the threads are useless. Now, if im on the edge i respond with the ftilt if they are trying to get the edge, i bair if they try to up b (or dair if they come from underneath), and i nair if they are overshooting with the phantasm. Here's the problem though. Often a falco player will sweetspot and i wont get to the edge in time, then they will ledge hop and phantasm AGAIN onto the stage. And im not thinking fast enough to respond. I think hypothetically if i jump and nair and it should hit, but i have a question. Can you hit falco/fox in the middle of their phantasm?

 

[Giggidax]

yes of course u can, the phantasm has just about the lowest priority in the game. it sux bad priority-wise. so yes, u can hit a falco out of his phantasm.

as for edgeguarding. just bair,nair,filt etc. shinespike even if ur timing is right

 

[Timotee]

Did you just suggest he should shine spike? I have no clue what to think of that.

Options you're ignoring: fair the phantasm, pk fire in the air, the bat, and pk thunder tailwhips. But yeah, if they get to the edge and ledgehop phantasms, just nair them.

 

[thesage]

Bat owns firefox. Prevents them from sweetspotting.

Pk fire phantasm.

Edgegaurding Fox and Falco (and almost every other character) is easy for Ness. It's just getting them into a situation where you edgegaurd them is hard.

Timotee didn't you know that Ness has a shinespike?

 

[MUGG]

The Yoyoglitch can be used to shinespike (Thunder jacket =D)
well, when well-timed, Forw Smash, Bair, Nair etc and Up b can be used for edgeguarding. I like to use fair in this case.
if you hit your opponent far off the stage, you can also use neutral b.

Sry 4 my bad engli$h

 

[Jono]

Repeated down tilts -> Edgehog!

 

[Wave⁂]

I laughed at Giggidax.

technically, the easiest route is the nair, since technically is is a sex-kick, even though he doesn't kick. it provides stun but not a lot of knockback, which is just about the perfect way to put down a space animal. this is the same concept of PK Fire'ing an space animal .

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

The absolute best thing you can do is fsmash AWAY from them...they'll run into ness' counter hitbox(the part of the bat that reflects projectiles) and it will act like mario's cape and turn their upB around

 

[Wave⁂]

seriously!?! cool. i think i'll try that. i though it only worked against items and projectiles.

 

[Livevil200]

wait, so go to the edge, turn away from the edge, and then fsmash?

 

[MUGG]

I think it won't work at all times...
The Firefox / Firebird must go exactly into ness, and then the forw smash must be well-timed... I still think Fair is the best Oo

maybe it looks cool, but fair works also good...


(sry 4 my bad engli$h)

 

[thesage]

Yes it does work at all time. Part of the hitbox of the tipper hits under the edge. With proper timing it can disrupt and prevent sweetspotting by fox, falco, and Ness (I learned that the hard way from UmbreonMow).

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

The absolute best thing you can do is fsmash AWAY from them...they'll run into ness' counter hitbox(the part of the bat that reflects projectiles) and it will act like mario's cape and turn their upB around

april fools




^_^

 

[thesage]

Did anyone actually believe that?

 

[MUGG]

me since i'm not a serious ness player Oo
But I said fair is better though =P

well what a chat =D

 

[Livevil200]

wait sage, does Ness's Fsmash reach teh edge of FD? What are nesses options against a sweetspotting fox?

Pika Fire (hardly a great manuever)
off the edge nair
shorthopped dair at edge

what else?

 

[thesage]

Yes f-smash can prevent Fox, Falco, Ness, and others from sweetspotting. At first it's hard to space but it's the most effective way. I played UmbreonMow and he used it against my perfectly sweetspotted recoveries ('cept when I didn't sweetspot and he punished me). Don't use this against pikachu, pichu, zelda, and sheik. There recoveries have enough lag where you can just wd back onto the ledge and then get off the ledge (without doing anything) to punish lag.

And there's this vid too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLEcUnBHj9U
Thanx Reik!

Fair, bair, and nair are also good edgegaurding moves against all characters (dair is situational), but in this case f-smash is better (it makes the person being edgeguarded kinda annoyed).

 

[indie_dave]

tailwhipping spacimals ded is s3xy bc there's good stun where they [fast]fall. especially if they're below the ledge rinse and repeat

 

[thesage]

Totally forgot about that... so stupid.

 

[Livevil200]

wait, against he other characters you mentioned, is there enough time to be hanging on the edge and to just hit "L" to roll off making the edge still unattainable, and then cstick right before the pika/shiek has time to recover from the lag?

 

[Livevil200]

i know that doesn't make a lot of sense. what i mean is, will they ahve already recovered from the lag if you attempt to press L and forward smash Right afterwards?

 

[thesage]

They probably will have. If they're back on the ledge then you get up by not doing anything (not attacking not jumping not rolling). You just press the controll stick into the direction of the stage. You most likely would want to bthrow back off the edge insted of bat since the bat will send them towards the stage (unless you're behind them). Don't use roll, just get on the stage and b-throw them back out.

 

[indie_dave]

llaawl @ reik's video :GRIN:

 

[Wave⁂]

I just thought of something. Suppose you anticipated where a Fox/Falco is about to be.

I thought that maybe jumping out and PK Fire them (toward the stage), then double jump into a dair.

Could it work?

 

[Timotee]

If I got what you said correctly, you jump out while facing the stage and pk fire, then dj and while they're burning stomp on them. I suppose it could work, but only on certain stages. DL64 I think you'd be too close to the stage and too low by the time you could pkt2. wall hug stages might work, but it sounds like WAY too much risk in the risk vs. reward equation. If you're swift and precise, I think a ledge-cancelled pk fire to bair would work better, if you're still wanting flashy.

I just thought of a cooler flashy edgeguard along your idea annoying. PK fire them the way it's discussed, but then double jump and pkt2 them from behind, aim it at their head or for a sweetspot, since that's probably where they were aiming previously.

 

[Wave⁂]

Flashy Ness KO's FTW.

 

[thesage]

Pk Flashy Ko's FTW...

 

[Livevil200]

the trouble with all this is if youve played a competent fox or falco, they are REALLY good at recovering...even with the up b. They aren't predictable. They'll get to the edge at wierd angles not to mention they'll get on the stage at wierd angles and they just dont have any lag when they come back.