How to Deal with Yoshi Matchup?

[Now Disappear]

I went to a local and this player completely destroyed me. (Keep in mind this was the first Yoshi I've ever fought) any tips for the matchup? Typing this on mobile so expect grammar and spelling mistakes.

 

[Mervis]

In DFW there is a very skilled Yoshi player. He stopped playing Yoshi, but I've learned a decent amount about the MU. Samus wins the match up pretty hard. Getting grabbed is a serious issue for Samus, but if you have even an OK reaction time you should be able to avoid getting grabbed by Yoshi. Yoshi's OOS options are still very dangerous, so avoid going hard on the pressure. If you space out Yoshi, he's pretty bad. Basically playing standard Samus will take you far. Stay grounded, space and missile, and approach for a punish.

 

[Litt]

In DFW there is a very skilled Yoshi player. He stopped playing Yoshi, but I've learned a decent amount about the MU. Samus wins the match up pretty hard. Getting grabbed is a serious issue for Samus, but if you have even an OK reaction time you should be able to avoid getting grabbed by Yoshi. Yoshi's OOS options are still very dangerous, so avoid going hard on the pressure. If you space out Yoshi, he's pretty bad. Basically playing standard Samus will take you far. Stay grounded, space and missile, and approach for a punish.

What the hell are you talking about? yoshi doesnt have OoS options besides shield dropping from plats and rolling.... you can pressure the **** out of yoshi and break their shield from just jabbing if they dont roll out in which case you can read into a wd dsmash or dtilt to start a combo. only smart yoshi players will light shield you can never really pressure them, but then the dynamic of the match changes. You honestly have no clue wtf you are talking about Mervis, don't give advice when you are not experienced or knowledgeable in what you talk about.

I went to a local and this player completely destroyed me. (Keep in mind this was the first Yoshi I've ever fought) any tips for the matchup? Typing this on mobile so expect grammar and spelling mistakes.

I've played a few yoshis, amsa and v3man at apex last year, and there is actually a semi decent one on netplay named jos. If you want to discuss the match up in more detail, just shoot me a PM and I can give you my experience from both sides of the MU.

 

[JerkPhil]

I've played the best Yoshi main in Europe in tournament. Even though it was Bo5, he forfeited after I beat him 1-0 because I camped him so hard...
Missiles, missiles, missiles... See how they react to the missiles, and punish them accordingly. Always run away until they overcommit trying to catch up.

 

[Corigames]

There are two Yoshi's and AZ and they both give me problems for similar reasons. They easily powershield projectiles by exploiting his crouch animation and drop out of shield so quickly that you never even see the egg shield come up. The missile flies at them and then turns around when it gets to his face; it's pretty funny. On track though, I wouldn't expect to always be able to spam a Yoshi down. That should be a back-up plan for when you need to feel out an enemy.

First of all, you need to understand Yoshi movement. Like Ness and Peach, he can DJ cancel and change his momentum in drastic ways. IE He can jump away from you and immediately fly back in and hit you with a strong, super armor Nair. His doublejump can be hard for Samus to punish because anything that can knock him out of it is so easy to punish that he can spam Nair out of it while falling gracefully to the ground. The best option is to punish him AFTER he uses his double jump to be aggressive. If he's looking to land Fair, do a WD back Downsmash. If he's doing Nair, UpB OoS. If he comes from above with a Dair, WD out of the way and punch him. (Note that UpB OoS does not work on Yoshi if he's shielding. He won't get shield poked. Don't even try it). If you end up shielding too much instead of moving away, he can poke you with Dtilt and Dsmash.

Since Yoshi has few OoS options, you will see most of them use shield drops more than the general population at their skill level. For those of you who are unfamiliar with shield dropping: there is an animation that plays when you drop through a platform. By angling your shield a certain way, you can do a faster animation than the regular one, letting you act faster out of it. Since the tech requires you to be in shield, that means one can block a move, drop through the platform, and react quickly. Yoshi players use this tech in order to get fast punishes OoS while on platforms by doing aerials just as he falls through. If you try to attack from below and finish on the platform, you can be hit by a shield drop Uair, so that's not entirely safe. Yoshi can also DJ Cancel a move after shield dropping to give it super armor to counter quick attacks from below. On top of that, the classic mix-up for a shield drop attack is lightshield. Since there's no discernible way to tell if Yoshi is lightshielding, he can occasionally fly off the platform instead of passing through it when hit. After that, he can drop off and immediately strike you with DJ cancel aerials. In other words, don't try to fight a Yoshi that's shielding above you conventionally. You need to be cautious of your spacing when attacking a Yoshi shielding above you in order to avoid being counter attacked.

Yoshi can be very easy to edgeguard, but don't be fooled. They have a few tricks for getting back on. Like a good Capt. Falcon main, they tend to be skilled at high recoveries that either land on higher stage platforms or fade back to the ledge. Since they are doing this with a DJ instead of a usual UpB, they will be able to act on the way down, so you may have to give up a hard punish in order to not get punished yourself. Trying to bait out a move by feinting an attack is the ideal way to get better punishes, but, due to the low choices Yoshi has, it's easy to read what players are going to do in a situation anyway. There's also a rock/paper/scissor to edgeguarding Yoshi. If Yoshi recovers high:
-and you guard the stage = Yoshi can DownB cancel to the ledge
-and you guard the ledge = Yoshi lands on a high platform
-and you try to intercept = Yoshi air dodges and lands before you or grabs the ledge

Now, obviously, he's still much easier to edgeguard than most characters due to his single jump that can be gimped. Just be mindful if you are missing edgeguard opportunities because he's air-dodging back on, going for the ledge with cancels (down or up B) frequently, or using the DJ close to the stage to use super armor to plow through.

Yoshi tends to kill with strong Fsmashes, Dsmashes, and Uairs. Since Samus dies off the top quickly, it's best not to fight him from above. It's not that she usually ever tends to approach from above, but lots of people get over aggressive when playing low tier characters and fall into traps they wouldn't find themselves in when dealing with high tiers. Uair can also be a finisher to combos that start with Fair on a grounded Samus, dtilt, his throws, UpB eggs, utilt, and Usmash, so try to DI these properly when at kill percent to avoid Uair death as if it was Fox Up throw Up air. The other kills are much harder for Yoshi and rely on him getting strong punishes on missed techs (jab reset fsmash or dsmash) or weak shields usually do it. Since Yoshi's head flings far back in the Fsmash animation, he can use it to counter attack Samus' moves like fsmash by weaving out and back in.

Now for what you should do in this MU:
In neutral, I would expect the Yoshi to move around a lot from platform to platform. You can try to force actions by making shots with missiles and charges so that you can advance on him safely. He can't do much OoS, so feel free to footsie his shield or make grabs if you corner him in it on stage. If he rolls, you Dsmash. If he spot dodges, you Fsmash. It's pretty easy to see the opening when he does it. Sometimes Yoshi players will DJ across the stage with an attack accidentally, and you should be ready to take an easy stock for it. Essentially, if a Yoshi player DJs in an unsafe way, be ready to punish. Be ready for them to air dodge your punish and punish that too. Moving Yoshi around elegantly is difficult, and they will make mistakes.

Any time Yoshi is off stage, you need to make him terrified that you are going to guard him perfectly. His DJ is slow, dips at first, and then sends him high up. If he is far off stage, he has to make a critical decision of when to jump and when to cancel the jump in order to make it back, because there's nothing else he can reasonably do to gain height aside from air dodging up. You need to feel out how the player responds to projectile pressure. If they FF and then DJ to get around it, then you need to shoot and then go deep to stop them from getting back. If they immediately DJ, then start by shooting above where they are in relation to you to try and force the other option. If they DI well, they might be able to consistently stay above your missile threat range during the entire recovery, in which case you refer to the rock/paper/scissor above and try to bait out one of those reactions for punishment. Charge Shot should be able to stop his DJ in the super armor, but he can (most likely) air dodge right after the hit since the armor breaking just stops his movement.

I hope this helps and wasn't too vague.

 

[Mervis]

What the hell are you talking about? yoshi doesnt have OoS options besides shield dropping from plats and rolling.... you can pressure the **** out of yoshi and break their shield from just jabbing if they dont roll out in which case you can read into a wd dsmash or dtilt to start a combo. only smart yoshi players will light shield you can never really pressure them, but then the dynamic of the match changes. You honestly have no clue wtf you are talking about Mervis, don't give advice when you are not experienced or knowledgeable in what you talk about.


I've played a few yoshis, amsa and v3man at apex last year, and there is actually a semi decent one on netplay named jos. If you want to discuss the match up in more detail, just shoot me a PM and I can give you my experience from both sides of the MU.

Ur cute

 

[Kmac0]

@ Litt
Jos is a student at NJIT, I live like 10 minutes from there and I've played him quite a bit.
He's really good and he and I have looked into the MU a little bit, but I don't think I know enough to really say anything with weight in this thread. Just thought I'd let the world know that Jos is real as ****.

 

[Litt]

@ Litt
Jos is a student at NJIT, I live like 10 minutes from there and I've played him quite a bit.
He's really good and he and I have looked into the MU a little bit, but I don't think I know enough to really say anything with weight in this thread. Just thought I'd let the world know that Jos is real as ****.

Oh i know he is a real ass, i consistently beat him (not lost to him) and tell him to shut up because of how much swearing transpires, however with yoshi mains being hard to come by for experience, he is one of the better options out there for accessibility

 

[_jos_]

Missiles and charge shot both break double jump armor, which is pretty much an instant stock if Yoshi is off stage. Be careful when you approach with missiles, because it's very easy to crouch powershield them if you fire them too high or at standing height, but throwing out missiles at platform height is a great way to keep Yoshi on the ground. Getting hit out of double jump armor is really threatening. Be prepared to capitalize on that if you ever notice it happening.

Down smash to punish rolls, jab shield to force rolls. Be ready to crouch cancel nair and down smash to punish.

Personally I think this is one of Yoshi's worst matchups because it's really easy camp Yoshi with projectiles.