How to deal with ranged spam? (notably Link)

[Reflectiion]

Hey guys,

I'm having a tough time dealing with good Link players. A good link will not let me get anywhere near him, using his boomerang and then arrows, making it nearly impossible for me to close a gap on him.

Any and all advice on how to counter a heavy spacing playstyle like this is much appreciated. I'm sure I'm just missing something and there's a way to handle this.

 

[Dr. Krumm]

Try playing with some passive aggresion, get close enough that Link feels uncomfortable and throws out a melee move, then try to punish said move. If he attemps to flee by rolling, read the rolls since he will have to roll around you. Remeber also that Link has quite a bit of lag on some of his moves, if you're fast enough you can catch him charging his bow or pulling out a bomb in which case it's a free punish.

Remember that there is no super effective way for Ganon to handle campers, remember, you're playing Ganon, patience and being unpredicable is your greatest allies.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

First things first, try to learn to power shield while power walking (dashing). It will help you a bit in getting close without having your shield eaten.

I don't have a definite strategy against (got mauled recently by Duck Hunt), since it's mostly about trying to punish opponents up close.

 

[Vanillascout]

Ledge stall (drop from ledge, upB to regrab, repeat) until he comes to fight you.

 

[Bittersweet]

In my experience, the boomerang seems to be Link players' greatest folly against Ganon, particularly while Ganon's at low percents. Ganon can easily ride the gale to make the approach several times easier, and generally can handle any other projectiles Link throws. That said, I'm not exactly the most experienced and/or reliable.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

One of the ways I close distance is switch up Side B and Down B. I use down B to clank with the projectiles and than when I'm close enough I use Side B (or down B if appropriate).
*if you are playing with custom moves use the dive kick it goes over all projectiles and can even be a follow up off the stage to gimp the oppenent.

Also use the gale boomerang against Link. Try and read/predict when he will throw it and jump above it than activate Warlock Punch or Charge a smash attack and the gale will bring you straight to Link for a free hit or to close the distance. BUT be carful of getting grabbed you really gotta read the situation before attempting this.

I landed Warlock Punch a bunch of times against a few Link players who thought they were safe by throwing out the gale boomerang all the time at Ganon.
They were wrong....

 

[Lilfut]

If you're playing in a mode that allows customs, Wizard's Dropkick is pretty much designed for dealing with projectiles.

 

[Wiley]

First things first,

For this MU, a side taunt off the bat is a must. Link must know his efforts will be futile and his puny range assault will do nothing but stall the inevitable destruction of Hyrule and any little green clad heroes in the way.

On a serious note, rushing and getting raged about the spam will do nothing but have them thinking it's worth the effort. People have already made good points about using the boomerang as a shuttle. It also is a way to give your well timed Ftilt Dtilt the range it needs to beat his triple jab game with the help of a little push from behind by the same boomerang. Spacing is so key in most Ganon MUs and this one is no exception, if not more important. His Dtilt has excellent semi safe poke range when you get to that mid/close region.

Just mix up power shields, short hops, D-specials, and S-specials when needed. It takes practice, and will never be fun if they are the type that forgets their sword entirely and spends minute after minute delaying the game with rolls and bow... but the longer they keep it up the easier it is to read. So stay patient, find your punish windows, and slam your fist through them.

 

[Muhznit]

I find that Down+B to approach works pretty well until they suddenly realize they have bombs. Then I have to mix in power shields during power walking until I'm close enough that I'm sure they won't have chance to react to Down B unless they're absurdly good. If you Down B from too far away, then they'll generally just flip backwards and grab you or do whatever.

Side B can work, but in general his hookshot seems to have a longer range than what we cover. Though I should probably make a habit of jumping into it and working with that somehow.

 

[Opana]

I find that Down+B to approach works pretty well until they suddenly realize they have bombs. Then I have to mix in power shields during power walking until I'm close enough that I'm sure they won't have chance to react to Down B unless they're absurdly good. If you Down B from too far away, then they'll generally just flip backwards and grab you or do whatever.

Side B can work, but in general his hookshot seems to have a longer range than what we cover. Though I should probably make a habit of jumping into it and working with that somehow.

Well actually, wizkick cancels out the majority of projectiles it hits frrom my experience, although it cancels wizkick as well. If they're not aware of this, this would likely be a good position for you, although not guaranteed.

I usually dash power shield, and go for either a wizkick that's certain to go offstage,(Preferably a cancel). I then usually bair pursuers or fast fall up special to the ledge. When I want to assault them onstage, I usually use a pivot ftilt or flame choke as they often roll. It really depends on the player, I spend the first portion analyzing them and their reactions but with mix ups nothing is certain.

All I can recommend as surefire advice is learn to powershield, and act accordingly based on the situation.

 

[Wiley]

and soon we're all going to have Dacus to close the distance if the option is fitting.
>:D
(Unless you've mastered the input on a 3DS in which case, please pm me with any tips you can offer as I find it brutal)

I'd say Opana gave a great Ganon "bases covered" strat for wiz kick advancing and even some follow up Ganon play. I typically like to keep that move in my pocket for surprise and to stay fresh, but it is ideal if you can end off stage if you have to. If only custom's were allowed in FG like they are in Tournaments, I'd be getting far more practice with Dropkick 2... which counters a lot of projectiles.

 

[1FC0]

You do not. On FG 1v1 I spam Ganons to death with Gyro's and Lasers and they rarely come close. One Ganondorf that I fought yesterday was a very wise man, because when I chose R.O.B. he gave up and did not even try to attack me anymore. That is how a good Ganondorf should play.

 

[Vermanubis]

You do not. On FG 1v1 I spam Ganons to death with Gyro's and Lasers and they rarely come close. One Ganondorf that I fought yesterday was a very wise man, because when I chose R.O.B. he gave up and did not even try to attack me anymore. That is how a good Ganondorf should play.

A gentleman like you came here once before.

Don't worry, his soul is in good hands.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You do not. On FG 1v1 I spam Ganons to death with Gyro's and Lasers and they rarely come close. One Ganondorf that I fought yesterday was a very wise man, because when I chose R.O.B. he gave up and did not even try to attack me anymore. That is how a good Ganondorf should play.

Ever heard of the shadow realm? That's where you're about to go.

 

[Wiley]

Not that I need to prove something, but he hasn't accepted my 1v1 challenge yet
I'd like a go at this silly Rob with Ganon however bad the MU is.

Edit:
Well he responded to the friendly 1v1 offer.
"No"
Spineless robot, I don't know if you have what it really takes to be wandering around trolling such a powerful and evil thread. I was kind of hoping for a badass Rob challenge. I don't mind losing, but I doubt you're half as good as the air you try to come off with. Frankly, I consider the match won by default. GG

 

[WwwWario]

Something I've experienced: If you can master Dorfy VS Rosalina, you can master Dorfy to the max.

 

[Wiley]

Something I've experienced: If you can master Dorfy VS Rosalina, you can master Dorfy to the max.

I find her easier to deal with than other MU's. She's not a spam projectiler, and you can obliterate Luma in seconds if not just 1 shot him off the stage. It's not easy... And many a good Rosa will keep him close whenever threatened, but Ganon is a mean dude... Even if your attacks hit shield, the Luma is often toast. It is the kind of grind where your power is at least felt, and you're not just being bombarded by junk and waiting for windows like many other projectile happy fighters. That being said, it can still be ugly for him... Rosa is, no surprise anymore, one of the best in the roster.

 

[Reflectiion]

Just a little follow up/reflection (mostly aimed at newer players that were in the same place as me when I posted this, as this is likely common knowledge for more experienced smashers):

After about 650 dorf games, I'm starting to get the hang of (at least compared to before) dealing with projectiles, especially when spammed. One of the best pieces of advice in this thread was WILEY earlier:

On a serious note, rushing and getting raged about the spam will do nothing but have them thinking it's worth the effort.

I find keeping a clear head and not getting antsy/frustrated helps immensely. If you can manage to sit back and time your shields and short hops to dodge their projectiles, eventually they realize it's futile and will mix it up, sometimes by charging into you.

Patience is key. You have time. Make the enemy come to you. They will hardly be able to KO you from map's length if you sit back and short hop/shield/spot dodge their projectiles. Even if you mis-time your dodges, Ganon is able to soak up a good amount of damage, land a good couple of hits, and still KO the enemy, so sometimes you just have to wait for your opening.

If any of the advice I gave is off, please feel free to correct me. I have by no means mastered this, just noting my recent experiences.

 

[Opana]

Mixing up different types of jumps and fast falls has been working for me, alongside the usual options.

 

[Naroghin]

Some advice from your feindly neighborhood Dark Link:

Rang - Ride it! Read whether your opponent will attack high or low and act accordingly (or just block whatever attack and grab oos)

Bow - Judge first if it can be dodged by simply moving. The weak shots curve but are slow and are usually just to create some visual noise, but if it's obvious a charged shot will be coming straight at you, power shield.

Bombs - Don't forget that bombs are actually just items, and should be treated as such. If we Links throw a bomb at you, it is not a projectile attack, it is actually a gift to help you ensure our destruction! So snatch that thing out of the air and send it back or, better yet, learn to bomb-toss-cancel your landing lag (that is, if it works with Ganon's handling. I haven't tested yet) and create some crazy strings/combos!

Fun fact: all Links want to be defeated by Ganon; it means the suffering will finally end. The More You Know

 

[Opana]

Fair ate through a mid percents stock behind nearly charged aura sphere.

I'd like to explore this vs. other big projectiles, as due to fairs speed increase it can be in my opinion a viable defense vs. edge guarders.

 

[1FC0]

Not that I need to prove something, but he hasn't accepted my 1v1 challenge yet
I'd like a go at this silly Rob with Ganon however bad the MU is.

Edit:
Well he responded to the friendly 1v1 offer.
"No"
Spineless robot, I don't know if you have what it really takes to be wandering around trolling such a powerful and evil thread. I was kind of hoping for a badass Rob challenge. I don't mind losing, but I doubt you're half as good as the air you try to come off with. Frankly, I consider the match won by default. GG

GG

 

[Naroghin]

game grumps?

 

[1FC0]

Who knows?

 

[KieRanaRan]

If you have the patience, I'd say just read the attacks and wait for him to come to you. Once you've got the timing down, shielding, dodging and jumping over the bow + boomerang become easy enough. I've found this often results in Link getting fed up and deciding to bring the fight closer. Now if you're fighting a real stubborn S.O.B. who just does not let up, then the match will go to sudden death. And I can think of few people who like being in SD with Ganondorf who can kill 300% enemies by sneezing if he wanted to.

 

[Watulio]

Ledge stall (drop from ledge, upB to regrab, repeat) until he comes to fight you.

I usually find myself doing this against spamming greninjas, wii fit trainers and links.

 

[_Magus_]

Not that I need to prove something, but he hasn't accepted my 1v1 challenge yet
I'd like a go at this silly Rob with Ganon however bad the MU is.

Edit:
Well he responded to the friendly 1v1 offer.
"No"
Spineless robot, I don't know if you have what it really takes to be wandering around trolling such a powerful and evil thread. I was kind of hoping for a badass Rob challenge. I don't mind losing, but I doubt you're half as good as the air you try to come off with. Frankly, I consider the match won by default. GG

Mah boi Wiley, holdin' the city down and making us Ganons look good. XD

Patience is key with all projectile spammers, as said before. It's something I'm still working on

 

[KieRanaRan]

Patience is key with all projectile spammers, as said before. It's something I'm still working on

Agreed. I think we can extend that and say patience is key with Ganondorf full stop.

 

[Drunken_Master]

I usually find myself doing this against spamming greninjas, wii fit trainers and links.

This shouldn't work against any Link who knows what he's doing, since regrabbing the ledge without taking damage doesn't refresh your invincibility, he can spam bombs at the right distance and force you to at least get on stage for a moment, and depending how you choose to do that, he may be able to punish you.

Ganon is actually pretty well suited to getting through Link's spam, however. It's just about knowing both sides of the match up, and spacing properly.

 

[Vanillascout]

This shouldn't work against any Link who knows what he's doing, since regrabbing the ledge without taking damage doesn't refresh your invincibility, he can spam bombs at the right distance and force you to at least get on stage for a moment, and depending how you choose to do that, he may be able to punish you.

Ganon is actually pretty well suited to getting through Link's spam, however. It's just about knowing both sides of the match up, and spacing properly.

A good link can just put you on lockdown with his bow/boomerang, so that's what most of them tend to do; just sit at the other end of the stage and spam.

The point of ledge stalling in this case isn't to get link close to you, it's to get him to stop spamming. See, everyone just assumes you'll continue ledge stalling until link is within attack range, but giving link that idea is the whole point. The moment he stops spamming and moves in with the intention to bomb you, you catch him off-guard by rolling onto the stage and approaching.

 

[KACHOW!!!]

I just beat a toon link a minute ago, I think the trick to link is the angle of your approach, and timing which and when of his projectiles he'll throw out and when. I play a lot more link than dorf, and i know that I've usually got some sort of pattern based on when I think they're going to be open to what move. medium range is probably boomerang, long range is arrow.