How to deal with Falco shining and combos

[Mikkelmann]

When I play Falcos they shine and combo me a lot and it's hard to get out of and avoid. What can i do to improve this?

 

[Coltrane]

Grab falcos. Jab cancel->grab.

 

[JNova]

lol Fox always gets combo'd alot. Maybe you should think about why you get hit in the first place, because if Falco gets you with a shine you are potentially already dead. I mean, look at high-level players like ppmd and mango. I'm sure they cannot magically avoid being shine-combo'd if Falco' shine hits.

You can only escape by DI'ing left or right, hoping that the Falco is a scrub (shine sends you up-wards) and avoid kill moves like tech-chase f-smash or d-air (being close to the edge).
His Shine doesn't kill you, but his follow-ups do, and they are not really guaranteed. So get the fk out of his kill moves and grab that son-of-a-bird to pay him back.

I can only give you that advice, that you shouldn't get shine'd in the first place. How to avoid that is another interesting story

 

[MooMoo_Cowfreak]

Smash DIing the shine hard left or right is a way to get out, but is hard af cause the timing is super tight. Otherwise, if the player is good enough, there really is no escape from pillaring, no matter your DI. As JNova said though, DI'ing left or right is your best bet.

 

[BTmoney]

When I play Falcos they shine and combo me a lot and it's hard to get out of and avoid. What can i do to improve this?

First big thing:
1. DI better. DI down and away when you get shined and you should go pretty far away from falco at like a 40 degree angle. Sometimes he can still follow up but past like mid % you make it way harder on him or even impossible

2. Don't miss your techs (so don't keep pushing L or R when you're getting combo'd wait until you get dair'd cause that's when you'll need to tech. You have to try to DI out or accept the punish until then), a lot of easy falco combos are reliant on you not teching and they're mindless to perform if your opponent doesn't tech

3. Use your shield effectively. learn how to shine out of shield (OOS) and SH nair OOS use those two options whenever falco hits an aerial high on your shield (which is poorly spaced). You can also just shield grab him a lot of the time if he does that

4. If you're getting shield pressured too much buffer a roll OOS. A lot of people don't realize how good buffering rolls is so I'll spare you the year or 2 you'll waste before you start doing this. Unless Fox/Falco are executing things perfectly spaced and frame perfect (or very, very close--which is pretty much never). You can buffer a roll out of almost every shield pressure string and pretty much any practical one. To do this, all you have to do is shield an attack and while you're in shield stun (your shield is kind of "glitchy" looking and you can't move) hold the c-stick to the left to roll to the left or to the right to roll right. Using the C-stick instead of the analog stick will make you do a frame perfect roll OOS out of shield stun. You don't have to "time it" just hold the direction once you get hit and you'll roll out on the first frame the game will let you. This is really good, and easy because it beats mindless shield pressure (60% of players) effortlessly and then it'll come down to making that person have to read you and at that point the mixup game starts. Most "bad" players won't even read it that effectively anyways and in general when you change up your responses and timing it's kind of hard to read in the first place.
People say "rolling is bad". No it's not, rolling inappropriately is bad. Incorrectly challenging shield pressure is even worse because then you're actually getting hit (as opposed to opening up a possibility where your opponent might read you and might hit you). Instead of shielding and trying to challenge them incorrectly, just void their pressure by mixing up your rolls and OOS options. The fact that it'll come out frame perfect and you don't have to time it will also work heavily in your favor. Once you get over the "fear" of shield pressure you can start thinking about how you can directly challenge it which is more than possible.
Shine OOS also wrecks mediocre falco players.


Understand that an interaction is going on 1. in neutral and 2. when you're getting combo'd. The falco player can't cover every option all the time in a lot of situations and just because your opponent is PLAYING falco it doesn't mean that he's going to do the perfectly correct thing in theory that falco as a CHARACTER can do. A lot of the time even the combo comes down to making a read and it's not just pure hitstun strings.

Basically what I'm getting at is that in melee, there's usually another option. Pretty much all the time. There's something you can do usually to either get out of a combo or at least make it a little harder for your opponent.

Grab falcos. Jab cancel->grab.

I don't mean to be rude but don't provide definitive answers if you don't really know what you're saying.
I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as jab canceling with fox and even if there was that wouldn't be helpful. Your game plan shouldn't be jab->grab anyways cause 1 that's very linear and easy to avoid and 2 Falco can crouch cancel->shine and 3 why would you try to footsie yourself into a jab as Fox? If you're constantly moving and Falco is moving and putting lasers out getting a jab from your stand/walk or out of a WD or dash cancel is a lot harder than trying to go for just a straight grab because you can do grab out of your dash and run and JC it at any point.

Grabbing falco is however great. The best way to get grabs is to 1. read an approach and DD grab it or/call out falco on moving to a spot 2. get a grab out of a hit or a tech chase. It's hard to just grab out of neutral though. Anyone decent isn't just going to run into a grab. Shield grabbing bad shield pressure is also very easy and good but less prevalent at higher levels when people start spacing their pressure and executing more tightly (while also baiting out that option).

 

[Mikkelmann]

First big thing:
1. DI better. DI down and away when you get shined and you should go pretty far away from falco at like a 40 degree angle. Sometimes he can still follow up but past like mid % you make it way harder on him or even impossible

2. Don't miss your techs (so don't keep pushing L or R when you're getting combo'd wait until you get dair'd cause that's when you'll need to tech. You have to try to DI out or accept the punish until then), a lot of easy falco combos are reliant on you not teching and they're mindless to perform if your opponent doesn't tech

3. Use your shield effectively. learn how to shine out of shield (OOS) and SH nair (OOS) use those two options whenever falco it's an aerial high on your shield (which is poorly spaced). You can also just shield grab him a lot of the time if he does that

4. If you're getting shield pressured too much buffer a roll OOS. A lot of people don't realize how good buffering rolls is so I'll spare you the year or 2 you'll waste before you start doing this. Unless Fox/Falco are executing things perfectly spaced and frame perfect (or very, very close--which is pretty much never). You can buffer a roll out of almost every shield pressure string and pretty much any practical one. To do this, all you have to do is shield an attack and while you're in shield stun (your shield is kind of "glitchy" looking and you can't move) hold the c-stick to the left to roll to the left or to the right to roll right. Using the C-stick instead of the analog stick will make you do a frame perfect roll OOS out of shield stun. You don't have to "time it" just hold the direction once you get hit and you'll roll out on the first frame the game will let you. This is really good, and easy because it beats mindless shield pressure (60% of players) effortlessly and then it'll come down to making that person have to read you and at that point the mixup game starts. Most "bad" players won't even read it that effectively anyways and in general when you change up your responses and timing it's kind of hard to read in the first place.
People say "rolling is bad". No it's not, rolling inappropriately is bad. Incorrectly challenging shield pressure is even worse because then you're actually getting hit (as opposed to opening up a possibility where your opponent might read you and might hit you). Instead of shielding and trying to challenge them incorrectly, just void their pressure by mixing up your rolls and OOS options. The fact that it'll come out frame perfect and you don't have to time it will also work heavily in your favor. Once you get over the "fear" of shield pressure you can start thinking about how you can directly challenge it which is more than possible.
Shine OOS also wrecks mediocre falco players.


Understand that an interaction is going on 1. in neutral and 2. when you're getting combo'd. The falco player can't cover every option all the time in a lot of situations and just because your opponent is PLAYING falco it doesn't mean that he's going to do the perfectly correct thing in theory that falco as a CHARACTER can do. A lot of the time even the combo comes down to making a read and it's not just pure hitstun strings.

Basically what I'm getting at is that in melee, there's usually another option. Pretty much all the time. There's something you can do you either get out of a combo or at least make it a little harder for your opponent.



I don't mean to be rude but don't provide definitive answers if you don't really know what you're saying.
I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as jab canceling with fox and even if there was that wouldn't be helpful. Your game plan shouldn't be jab->grab anyways cause 1 that's very linear and easy to avoid and 2 Falco can crouch cancel->shine and 3 why would you try to footsie yourself into a jab as Fox? If you're constantly moving and Falco is moving and putting lasers out getting a jab from your stand/walk or out of a WD or dash cancel is a lot harder than trying to go for just a straight grab because you can do grab out of your dash and run and JC it at any point.

Grabbing falco is however great. The best way to get grabs is to 1. read an approach and DD grab it or/call out falco on moving to a spot 2. get a grab out of a hit or a tech chase. It's hard to just grab out of neutral though. Anyone decent isn't just going to run into a grab. Shield grabbing bad shield pressure is also very easy and good but less prevalent at higher levels when people start spacing their pressure and executing more tightly (while also baiting out that option).

Thanks but coltrane is a friend and he was just joking around

 

[BTmoney]

Thanks but coltrane is a friend and he was just joking around

my bad <3

people just give a lot of questionable advice here and it's kind of my pet peeve, at least if you don't ask the right people so I don't want anyone to go on misinformed

 

[Mikkelmann]

my bad <3

people just give a lot of questionable advice here and it's kind of my pet peeve, at least if you don't ask the right people so I don't want anyone to go on misinformed

Haha it's all good <3

 

[Oskurito]

Learn to:

-DI down and away quickly in both directions
-SDI falco's dair (this makes the shine miss at low%)
-Know that sometimes you can jump or nair/shine out of falco's shine hitstun if he's not fast enough (so spamming A or X can help).

If you haven't learned (things that help in this match up)
-Shine oos and good timing to grab out of shine (know that you can't always do this if he delays aerial, double shines, spaces well or hits you from behind).
-Chaingrabs, tech chase, upsmash, uptilt, thunder's combo.
-Shine spike out of his up b or side b (try to perfect this and be very agressive off stage).

Stage pick:
small stages unless your confident on your cg skills.

 

[Coltrane]

Thanks but coltrane is a friend and he was just joking around

Dude I would never joke around. Jab cancelling is a top notch tech skill.

 

[NightRaid|tAmA?]

Just wondering because it's my first time dealing with it. When Falco d-throws Fox I do I avoid the re-grab. I know it's not guaranteed but I just couldn't figure out how to get out of it. So I just started mashing the c-stick until a smash attack came out which kinda worked. I'm not new to playing against Falco. I can deal with lasers and getting out of all his combos but the d-throw thing is new to me. No Falco goes for it but that one Falco I played.

 

[trilok]

Just wondering because it's my first time dealing with it. When Falco d-throws Fox I do I avoid the re-grab. I know it's not guaranteed but I just couldn't figure out how to get out of it. So I just started mashing the c-stick until a smash attack came out which kinda worked. I'm not new to playing against Falco. I can deal with lasers and getting out of all his combos but the d-throw thing is new to me. No Falco goes for it but that one Falco I played.

shine him out or di (hold) away. mashing the cstick wont work

 

[King Mob]

Just wondering because it's my first time dealing with it. When Falco d-throws Fox I do I avoid the re-grab. I know it's not guaranteed but I just couldn't figure out how to get out of it. So I just started mashing the c-stick until a smash attack came out which kinda worked. I'm not new to playing against Falco. I can deal with lasers and getting out of all his combos but the d-throw thing is new to me. No Falco goes for it but that one Falco I played.

Tech that ****.

 

[Myougi]

Just wondering because it's my first time dealing with it. When Falco d-throws Fox I do I avoid the re-grab. I know it's not guaranteed but I just couldn't figure out how to get out of it. So I just started mashing the c-stick until a smash attack came out which kinda worked. I'm not new to playing against Falco. I can deal with lasers and getting out of all his combos but the d-throw thing is new to me. No Falco goes for it but that one Falco I played.

If you're playing PAL, it's not guaranteed due to Fox's new weight. If you're playing NTSC, the regrab sadly is at most percents. Due to a weird bug with Fox's weight and Falco's d-throw, In all versions of NTSC (1.0, 1.1, and 1.2) Fox can't tech D-throw. Try to buffer a roll away, there's not much you can do.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_regional_version_differences_(SSBM)#Fox

Tech that ****.

It's impossible in NTSC.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_regional_version_differences_(SSBM)#Fox

 

[William Sciambra]

First big thing:
1. DI better. DI down and away when you get shined and you should go pretty far away from falco at like a 40 degree angle. Sometimes he can still follow up but past like mid % you make it way harder on him or even impossible

2. Don't miss your techs (so don't keep pushing L or R when you're getting combo'd wait until you get dair'd cause that's when you'll need to tech. You have to try to DI out or accept the punish until then), a lot of easy falco combos are reliant on you not teching and they're mindless to perform if your opponent doesn't tech

3. Use your shield effectively. learn how to shine out of shield (OOS) and SH nair OOS use those two options whenever falco hits an aerial high on your shield (which is poorly spaced). You can also just shield grab him a lot of the time if he does that

4. If you're getting shield pressured too much buffer a roll OOS. A lot of people don't realize how good buffering rolls is so I'll spare you the year or 2 you'll waste before you start doing this. Unless Fox/Falco are executing things perfectly spaced and frame perfect (or very, very close--which is pretty much never). You can buffer a roll out of almost every shield pressure string and pretty much any practical one. To do this, all you have to do is shield an attack and while you're in shield stun (your shield is kind of "glitchy" looking and you can't move) hold the c-stick to the left to roll to the left or to the right to roll right. Using the C-stick instead of the analog stick will make you do a frame perfect roll OOS out of shield stun. You don't have to "time it" just hold the direction once you get hit and you'll roll out on the first frame the game will let you. This is really good, and easy because it beats mindless shield pressure (60% of players) effortlessly and then it'll come down to making that person have to read you and at that point the mixup game starts. Most "bad" players won't even read it that effectively anyways and in general when you change up your responses and timing it's kind of hard to read in the first place.
People say "rolling is bad". No it's not, rolling inappropriately is bad. Incorrectly challenging shield pressure is even worse because then you're actually getting hit (as opposed to opening up a possibility where your opponent might read you and might hit you). Instead of shielding and trying to challenge them incorrectly, just void their pressure by mixing up your rolls and OOS options. The fact that it'll come out frame perfect and you don't have to time it will also work heavily in your favor. Once you get over the "fear" of shield pressure you can start thinking about how you can directly challenge it which is more than possible.
Shine OOS also wrecks mediocre falco players.


Understand that an interaction is going on 1. in neutral and 2. when you're getting combo'd. The falco player can't cover every option all the time in a lot of situations and just because your opponent is PLAYING falco it doesn't mean that he's going to do the perfectly correct thing in theory that falco as a CHARACTER can do. A lot of the time even the combo comes down to making a read and it's not just pure hitstun strings.

Basically what I'm getting at is that in melee, there's usually another option. Pretty much all the time. There's something you can do usually to either get out of a combo or at least make it a little harder for your opponent.

Thanks for the tips that is super helpful!

I don't mean to be rude but don't provide definitive answers if you don't really know what you're saying.
I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as jab canceling with fox and even if there was that wouldn't be helpful. Your game plan shouldn't be jab->grab anyways cause 1 that's very linear and easy to avoid and 2 Falco can crouch cancel->shine and 3 why would you try to footsie yourself into a jab as Fox? If you're constantly moving and Falco is moving and putting lasers out getting a jab from your stand/walk or out of a WD or dash cancel is a lot harder than trying to go for just a straight grab because you can do grab out of your dash and run and JC it at any point.

Grabbing falco is however great. The best way to get grabs is to 1. read an approach and DD grab it or/call out falco on moving to a spot 2. get a grab out of a hit or a tech chase. It's hard to just grab out of neutral though. Anyone decent isn't just going to run into a grab. Shield grabbing bad shield pressure is also very easy and good but less prevalent at higher levels when people start spacing their pressure and executing more tightly (while also baiting out that option).

 

[Pάρί]

What are all the fox shorten timings? I really wanna learn them.