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How to charizard?

TGAP37

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
19
Location
Swansea UK
Hey I'm just picking up charizard and was wondering on the general playstyle of a charizard. My friend who's been playing him for a while plays a very grounded style very rarely using any aerials, I'm the exact opposite and use aerials constantly and rarely use most of his ground based attacks. so I was wondering what you guys thought was the optimal playstyle?
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
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Dedham, MA
Generally you want to go for ground -> air conversions, meaning like you hit with (Jab) and follow through with aerials. That, or space aerials carefully around platforms, given your Nair can go under platforms and touch the floor of most stages safely.

Also, you must always remind your opponent that they don't have enough badges to train you
 

Hinichii.ez.™

insincere personality
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
4,290
NNID
hinichii
3DS FC
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First, you gotta pick charmander when oak asks you to take your pick. After that, I suggest grinding it out on routes 1 through, till it evolves. Then, your gonna wanna teach some PKMN fly so you can head on over to the dragons den. If you aren't in the den, you just ain't doing it right. I'd tell you more, but then I wouldn't have the best zard in this world.
 
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Oatmeal.

Part of a balanced breakfast.
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
903
Location
SoCal
A Charizard that never uses aerials? Hah. You sir, have made my day.

Here's a few real basic things.

Jab or down smash setup into aerials is one of your closest friends. You can string together so much air from just that. Reverse Nair often for space. Never neglect the down B. And don't be shy about edgegaurding, he's one of, if not the best, at doing so.

Grounded Charizard HAHAHAHA.......ooohhhh.......
 

BluntedMask

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
148
Location
Western New York
Yo use that ground movement to the maximum advantage. Also use down b wavelanding and **** for platform work.

Mostly stay grounded and try to get a grab/dair/jab on him and you can start as many combos as you would like.

(Of course use your air attacks and what not when comboing or trying to pressure him)
 
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tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
Pivot stop. Charizards pivot stop is better than most wds in this game.
 

Heroofhatz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
244
Location
Oxford Ohio
So I might as well repost the giant guide I made a while back, hopefully it helps. :D

Charizard can be played as a passive aggressive or full agro character. You'll win a lot of matches by spacing people with Nair and using it as your primary focus for the neutral game. Keep in mind that Nair is your best move, incredible spacing potential, amazing edge guard opportunities, and event good combo potential to boot.

In the neutral game you will usually want to dash dance around mixed with doing Reverse Arial Rush Nairs to outspace and pester your opponents shield. Try and keep you back to them as much as possible since that's where you have the most range and are the safest honestly. Keep in mind that Nair with destroy projectiles that aren't lasers or physical objects like bananas or turnips. However a decent alternative if you don't have you back turned to them is just to jab, the disjoint in big enough that it will still destroy projectiles, and also acts as an anti-air (it's almost a perfect counter to Mario's full hop fire ball approach since it clashes with the fireball and also hits him). If your opponent is ever above you, best option is to try and get under them and Usmash or even jab since it's got some pretty massive disjoints. Using this strategy is a little more useful against floaty characters like Peach and Wario, but just Nair camp against Puff. Also crouch canceling a jab out of a run is pretty amazing too, spaced properly it's pretty safe too. That's generally the basics of the neutral game, also get grabs if you can since you have a really good grab range. But don't get to greedy with it, you want to force them to make a mistake, not read everything they do.

The offensive game has a few different ways it can go.
First of all throws:
If you get a grab, you have a few options. Bthrow can equal a free Fair or a free sourspot fair to Dair (the Zard Ken combo), but this is only if they do not DI away from you.
Generally Dthrow is better because it's a tech chase that is weighed pretty heavily in your favor. When you Dthrow, look for a tech. If they don't tech, jab them, you get about 3 or 4 frames advantage if they don't tech. If they do tech you can do one of a few things, either chase for a regrab, or if you were predicting it, you can cover two tech options with a Dsmash properly spaced. This is usually best near a ledge cause you can cover pretty much every option. Keep in mind you can also jab if they tech in place but grab is a little bit safer. It's not quite so good you can just react, but you can get a lot of precent on reallllly quick. Also, if your opponent is at kill percent, just Uthrow. Even if it doesn't kill them, it puts them in a bad offstage position since you can super jump and pester them in the air.

Your combo game revolves around getting your opponent in the air, and Zard's got like 5 launchers so you should be pretty good at doing that. Jab, Dsmash, and Usmash are your best launchers (besides Nair I guess). Off of a jab you can get Fair or Usmash. Usmash doesn't usually directly lead into anything, but super jump chases with Uair or even a well spaced Nair are great. If you ever get super jump Uair, just chain 1 or two together then finish with an Up B at the top of the screen, it kills ridiculously early. Dsmash is very character, weight, and percent dependent. On some lower percents you can just straight Fsmash people out of it. at upper percents it leads more assuredly into the Uair chain Up B combo at the top of the screen. Dair functions in much the same way. However a lot of smash is figuring out the combos that work for you so feel free to experiment.

Where you can get a lot of leverage is your ledge pressure. A reverse Nair can easily hit below a ledge, nullifying perfect spots on any character. Fun fact it's also a semi spike. The timing can be strict, but it isn't too hard to learn. You also have Dtilt, which if you hit with the flame has about the same hit boxes at Marth's F smash, but not quite as below the ledge. Even side B can hit below the ledge. Also you have flamethrower, which can be brutal to a lot of characters. You can also stall the ledge by dropping off the ledge and gliding right back onto the ledge.

Your Defensive game:

You're fat, and you're really large, learn to accept this early and you'll do better. You can get juggled by falcon and MK like you wouldn't believe, expect it and DI you hardest to get out of that stuff.

Recovery: Glide is amazing, and glide attack has stupid priority, only disjoints can beat it. This should be your main recovery option for pretty much every situation, especially if you get sent high since you can glide high over your opponent, wavebouce the glide and Nair as you fall to cover yourself. Also remember you can cancel Glide into an up B, can be extremely useful in a lot of situations. If you get hit out of your glide though, you will loose all of your jumps, so don't get hit, go under the stage if you have to. If you do get hit out glide, don't forget you can boost yourself back with side b.

On the ledge:
You've got a few things you can do from the ledge. First of all you can glide camp by just dropping off the ledge and immediately gliding, done fast enough I think you can be fully invincible. You can fake them out by glide camping, but instead of camping the ledge just Glair, it will set you onstage and it's really wicked fast if people aren't expecting it (fun fact you can also waveland it if you're get the angle right, also works on platforms or the ground). You can also ledge drop double jump side b. If you do it correctly you should end up right back on the ledge so they can't punish it. You can also ledge drop double jump flamethrower. If you've got space to work with, it's a great way to give yourself a bit of room onstage. You can also do and normal ledge drop arial, Fair isn't bad, or you can be like falcon and Dair if they recover onstage. Or heck even Nair and you'll hit them with the semispike.

In shield:
You've got shield-grab for in front of you, short hop OOS Nair for cross ups, Usmash OOS for when they are above you, and Up B OOS for when you really just need to get your opponent away from you. Note that up B OOS is REALLY RISKY, but it has decent knock back, try to aim for a platform with it though so that you don't get in so much landing lag.




I would say that's the gist of playing Zard, I'd love to answer more of your questions.
If all else fails, just Nair a lot and you should be fine :p
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
I've played this game for very short time, so I don't know that much about match ups or the game in general. I still think I'm right about this point.

Nair is not that good in neutral game most of the time. It loses to shield, because it's long move, and isn't multihit. Crouching also destroys nair. If you use it, you should pretty much land immediately or soon and be long distance away from your opponent. This is however difficult to achieve, because if you jump, your opponent can get under you or hit you with fast aerial. Best use in neutral is maybe doing well spaced early nairs with max fadeback. You can jump if you are far away from your opponent, but this basically achieves nothing. Nair is super good move vs aerial opponents, and basically forces your opponent to play footsies with you.

I think charizard neutral game should be played pretty much like marth in melee: Your goal is to get your opponent to jump at you or do a move that you can punish with cc or otherwise. You also don't want to let your opponent close to you in neutral. Your best ways to force your opponent approach might be spacing run cancel dtilts and threatening with grabs. Charizard has very good punish game in general and he also has great dash and run speeds he must abuse.

I'm trying to pick this char, so if someone has corrections and tips, they are welcome. I wrote this purposely blunt to get responses.
 
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Heroofhatz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
244
Location
Oxford Ohio
Nair is not that good in neutral game most of the time. It loses to shield, because it's long move, and isn't multihit. Crouching also destroys nair. If you use it, you should pretty much land immediately or soon and be long distance away from your opponent. This is however difficult to achieve, because if you jump, your opponent can get under you or hit you with fast aerial. Best use in neutral is maybe doing well spaced early nairs with max fadeback. You can jump if you are far away from your opponent, but this basically achieves nothing. Nair is super good move vs aerial opponents, and basically forces your opponent to play footsies with you.

I think charizard neutral game should be played pretty much like marth in melee: Your goal is to get your opponent to jump at you or do a move that you can punish with cc or otherwise. You also don't want to let your opponent close to you in neutral. Your best ways to force your opponent approach might be spacing run cancel dtilts and threatening with grabs. Charizard has very good punish game in general and he also has great dash and run speeds he must abuse.

I'm trying to pick this char, so if someone has corrections and tips, they are welcome. I wrote this purposely blunt to get responses.
About the first paragraph:

On the contrary, Nair is stupid safe and incredibly useful in the neutral game, but ONLY when used properly. Crouching against RAR SHFFL Nair will never really work unless your opponent is incredibly a fast faller and is also a really low percent, this implying that you're hitting with the flame (which you should be). If you hit the flame on the rise, they should be either popped up or forced to floor tech, if you hit with the swing around, it's late enough in your SHFFL that you can block an approach. They also shouldn't be able to WD OOS if you aim for trying to hit with the backswing of the tail. Also, since Nair is so stupidly disjointed (about half your tail), you should never get hit for doing it unless you make a mistake in spacing.

Other neutral stuff you can do is CC jab out of a run, it's also pretty stupidly disjointed, and while not as safe as Nair is still nonetheless an awesome and fast move.

In response to the second paragraph:
I would agree a bit, but more your trying to make your opponent do something stupid while staying safe. Watch any of the good Zard's out there any you'll see that they like to apply a to of pressure and then punish bad responses. CC is amazing imo but it shouldn't be the focus since after a while it wears off. Also, half of the time if you get your opponent to jump, you can rush in with a RAR Nair since they can't block in the air, or heck even get under them and Usmash. You're really fast and your dash dance is amazing, use that a lot as well.




I like where this conversation is going though :D
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
I was actually very stupid; I looked too much into the frame data and had too little experience. I just used it wrong and got punished. It comes up on frame 5 and is thus unreactable, and zard can move fast enough that you are safe if you fade back. If shielded or ccd it can be punished if you don't fade back/ space badly. I think it's also possible for fast characters to interrupt the nair with fast aerial while his tail is away from the opponent.

I didn't actually know that jab is that disjoint, I had it trade quite a lot vs fox and lucarios nairs. Is it shieldgrab safe? I think grabbing is still better quite often. I find that pivot ftilts and pivot stops are very good vs opponents that try to take your space. I think zards should really abuse running, and run dancing with run cancel dashes is effective.
 

Heroofhatz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
244
Location
Oxford Ohio
I was actually very stupid; I looked too much into the frame data and had too little experience. I just used it wrong and got punished. It comes up on frame 5 and is thus unreactable, and zard can move fast enough that you are safe if you fade back. If shielded or ccd it can be punished if you don't fade back/ space badly. I think it's also possible for fast characters to interrupt the nair with fast aerial while his tail is away from the opponent.

I didn't actually know that jab is that disjoint, I had it trade quite a lot vs fox and lucarios nairs. Is it shieldgrab safe? I think grabbing is still better quite often. I find that pivot ftilts and pivot stops are very good vs opponents that try to take your space. I think zards should really abuse running, and run dancing with run cancel dashes is effective.
Generally they do abuse those things, that's what a RAR Nair is. Also the only time they can run in and punish it is if you try an hit with the upswing. Characters like puff and peach are especially good at this since their air game puts them in just the right space. Try and aim for hitting with the backswing if you're approaching with RAR, or doing it late in your jump if you're stationary and you should be perfectly safe.

Also Jab isn't really shield grab safe unless you space it right (which is really hard), even still they can probably WD OOS to punish you. Also be careful with ftilt since it isn't shield safe and you generally have better and safer options. Ftilt is really only good situationally or in combos out of a hit confirmed Nair.

Although you are right in that Zard is crazy fast and his Dashdance is amazing, that's you main mind game against opponents.
 
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