How to beat Lucas

[Ogopogo]

What are some of the best tools to use against Lucas? I've heard CC and SDI are good against him, but I don't know what moves these tools are useful against.

 

[Fortune]

you're looking in the wrong place.

 

[Ogopogo]

I'd say a forum where people who know about/discuss/play Lucas isn't too bad of a place to ask.

 

[drummaniac28]

Characters that are good at spacing and/or have campy playstyles I generally find to be more difficult matches. It's really annoying having to work so hard to get near a Marth when all he has to do is fsmash -_-

Diddy is another character I personally find problematic as well as Toon Link

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

If you can be more aggressive than Lucas and force him to play defensive, you'll have a pretty good chance at beating him. Also, edge guarding his tether is something you'll have to work on. Edge guarding the up b really isn't that hard, just don't let it hit you an it doesn't have a lot of landing lag ether.

 

[Pepto]

What are some of the best tools to use against Lucas? I've heard CC and SDI are good against him, but I don't know what moves these tools are useful against.

Short answer: pick a top tier and grab him a jillion times.

If you still want to have fun, just adjust for his strengths like any other character.

1. Jab: pretty quick, and has surprisingly good range behind him. I'd sdi in front of him to get out of the range of his third jab.

2. Landing: his landing lag is super short, and can be shortened even more with a Zair right before he lands. Plus his nair auto cancels, so nair into jab combo is a good way to knock someone back enough to relieve some pressure. Also look out for his fsmash, it can come out pretty quickly.

3. Fsmash: quick, decent knockback, again, surprising hitbox from behind. It's also a reflector so being obvious with your items or projectiles isn't safe at all.

4. Pivot grab: great range, cuts out huge amounts of his grab lag. Don't be obvious about dair right above him; dashing into a pivot grab is an easy and effective punish for him.

5. Pk Thunder: great at gimping bad recoveries (Link especially is pretty much screwed off the edge).

6. ATs: advanced techniques like magnet pulling, zap jumping and Thunder sliding make Lucas a very mobile character, so don't underestimate his recoveries.

Lucas is pretty much the only character I play as, and those are his main strengths. He has a lot of other good moves (his very notable usmash for example) but they're pretty straightforward and avoiding them isn't that much different than avoiding attacks in general. That being said, as much as I love him, he's a terrible competitive character with a lot of exploitable weaknesses, so your biggest weakness is probably just not knowing the matchup. The people I play against beat me all the time but I tend to do really well against strangers, so you more than likely need practice more than anything else.

 

[_slydz]

It sounds like you're talking about Brawl

 

[Pepto]

It sounds like you're talking about Brawl

Good point. I can't help if this is about pm.

 

[_slydz]

I mean, this is the PM forum. And for better or worse, Lucas has had some pretty significant changes from Brawl

 

[Pepto]

Oh wow I didn't see that... my bad, ignore everything.

 

[G13_Flux]

lmfaooooo. yeah lucas is wayyyy different than brawl. Lucas is actually one of the top contenders for a spot in the top tier in my book, along with wolf and diddy.

Ranged characters are definitely a good choice against lucas. any character that has good tools to take care of his great mobility. link, snake, diddy, and even ROB are a few that i think might give lucas a run for his money.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Be mario. CG him lolz.
Mario has good combo options on him and fireballs can be a real pain.

 

[Chaos Pro]

This kid has so much going for him. He can also tech chase so easy with almost any of his moves. I feel he needs a nerf.

 

[Lukingordex]

I feel he needs a nerf.

No he doesn't. He's fine, most people think he's OP but that's because not many people actually know how to play the matchup.

I think he's a great character with a lot of potential, but that doesn't means he doesn't have trouble in some MUs (Mario, Fox and Wolf imo).

 

[Ogopogo]

How do those characters give him trouble? I'd like to know.

 

[Lukingordex]

I personally find Mario really annoying because of his fireballs and priority on most moves (his Uair is really good irc).

Fox and Wolf seems to be characters that are harder to combo with Lucas in general, they're also good at pressuring Lucas too. (good thing Lucas has his charged neutral B that helps a lot on those 2 MUs)

 

[Twewy]

I really only have trouble with Mario when I use Lucas.

 

[Eisen]

Mario, Samus, Falco, Wolf, Link, and Diddy give me the most trouble, I'd say. Ness and Ivysaur might too, but I'd have to fight more of them to give a clear answer.

Honestly, the thing about Lucas is, he basically has all the tools he needs to deal with most any situation just as long as he reads his opponent right. But, I will say that ironically he does very poorly against pressure, grabs, and juggles. Once you get in on Lucas, read his reactions right and chain moves on him as much as possible. Grab > tech chase is effective, grab > juggles are effective, and generally if you remove his ability to use PK Freeze against you, you've got him nailed down as much as you can nail down Lucas.

D3 and Pit (maybe a bit of Zelda) I imagine are also effective in this manner (blocking his PK freeze/neutral game and annoying him from a range). Lucas does poorly when you juggle or air combo him, as well. Characters like ZSS, DK, Luigi, Mewtwo, Metaknight, and Marth/Roy are kind of good at this, but with Marth it's just easier to do the usual Marth things. These characters also kind of mesh into a group of other characters like Lucario, Toon Link, and Sheik who just flat out do well comboing Lucas. Captain Falcon is deadly on Lucas when you get a grab, same goes for Fox. Etc.

Also, gimp him as much as possible. If your character has a sex kick, use it on a recovering Lucas. Samus is especially good at this.

So basically, annoy him from a distance with projectiles/wipe out his neutral game, outsmart the opponent, try to pressure/combo/juggle/chaingrab/grab them, and use Lucas' dependency on his tether recovery to your advantage. Really as far as I can tell, we Lucas mains don't get much practice with PKT2 (Pk thunder recovery) because most people don't try to/suck at punishing our tether recoveries. Force our PKT2s out and efficiently stifle us from returning to the stage.

Also, Fox's shinespike is a GOD on Lucas. Lucas may not slide as far offstage from shine as say, Luigi or Squirtle, but he falls a hell of a lot faster, which puts Lucas in an area where he has more trouble recovering (far below the stage).

 

[210stuna]

This is how you beat Lucas...

Spoiler

Use Samus

 

[NickLeo]

Am I the only one who is sick of seeing every single matchup discussion claiming, "this character really struggles against mario" with a generic explanation of fireballs and how mario uses them?

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Am I the only one who is sick of seeing every single matchup discussion claiming, "this character really struggles against mario" with a generic explanation of fireballs and how mario uses them?

I promise it's not just you. . .

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

i don't see how lucas players can complain about fireballs when you can absorb them for a free 8%?
lucas has the most the most diverse and useful toolkit in project m, if you try to deny that you're a filthy liar. many people think he's top 5 in the tier list and that could be true. there should be no situation where a good lucas player should feel helpless.



...unless your playing a 20XX Fox

 

[Lukingordex]

i don't see how lucas players can complain about fireballs when you can absorb them for a free 8%?

"Cool!!! Lucas recovers 8% while absorbing mario's fireballs, that's really a good option!"

You forgot the part when Mario punishes Lucas with a 40% damage combo because of the delay Lucas has after absorbing things.

 

[210stuna]

I also haven't seen Lucas with a consecutive high success rate in high level competitive play. Players like Pink Fresh do good at their local weeklies, but he doesn't usually win when players like Esam and Mewtwoking show up, Other top players like Oracle usually go with Rob or someone else other than Lucas.

I'm not saying he's garbage, but he does have his strong faults that can be extorted.

 

[NickLeo]

I also haven't seen Lucas with a consecutive high success rate in high level competitive play. Players like Pink Fresh do good at their local weeklies, but he doesn't usually win when players like Esam and Mewtwoking show up, Other top players like Oracle usually go with Rob or someone else other than Lucas.

I'm not saying he's garbage, but he does have his strong faults that can be extorted.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but what are these faults?
I don't know as much lucas as I'd like

 

[210stuna]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but what are these faults?
I don't know as much lucas as I'd like

Combofood, actually no, I'd say he's more chain grab material.
Also PK Freeze actually has low priority than most people think, but they still fear it.

 

[Crescent Monkey]

Mario only gets to combo Lucas after he absorbs a fireball if you use grounded Magnet. Shorthop Magnet->Double Jump away or DJC something. It is a good option and should not be ignored. I'm starting to think this matchup is actually okay for Lucas

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

"Cool!!! Lucas recovers 8% while absorbing mario's fireballs, that's really a good option!"

You forgot the part when Mario punishes Lucas with a 40% damage combo because of the delay Lucas has after absorbing things.

lol cry me a river. atleast the character has the option to absorb them unlike most of the cast who can only dodge or block. Furthermore if youre getting punished for putting yourself in a laggy situation what can be easily rectified by shorthop mag, or dumb enough to do it when mario is within reach to start a combo then you deserve all the damage you can eat. as i said before, lucas' well rounded toolkit should never put a good player in a bad situation unless they have a tech flub or play a really good top tier player. for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0EjVR5nT78 RECKTONING

 

[Lukingordex]

Actually I changed my mind like 4 days after that post, but thanks for giving me a scolding anyway, I deserved it