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How to be good at Smash

Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
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3,146
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disproving indeterminism
Theres definitely talent, its called genetics. My cousin has an IQ of 200, no matter what you do you will never be able to read as fast or memorize things as easily or as accurately as he can. Usain Bolt is the fastest man alive and there is nothing you can ever do to be as fast as him. You have physical and mental limits based on your genetics. Hard work and practice and the american dream can only push you to your limits, it won't change their bounds. Its ok to believe that your genetics control your height and weight and image but its not ok to believe your genetics control your mind and capabilities? They most certainly do. Smash is played with the body and mind. It requires you to be knowledgeable of the game (this does not necessarily mean you need to know frame specific data) and be able to execute the said knowledge. Body or mind, both are governed by genetics and so smash skill is governed by genetics as well.
 

Annex

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
761
Location
Columbia Gorge
What's the point of being right?
Sedda thinks there's no such thing as talent, and that's a really optimistic and beneficial view to have
 

Cobrevolution

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,178
Location
nj
Warning Received
it's just a normal discussion that invites all parties to understand others' viewpoints

from this, maybe there will be some sort of metagame advancement in the minds of players, albeit on a small scale

and despite the disagreements nobody is calling each other ******* who should go die
 

Cobrevolution

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
3,178
Location
nj
cue NIHILISM FROM COBR

in any case, i think that some people need to work very hard to attain their goals, and others don't. inasmuch as some need to study really hard to get good grades and others don't. etcetcetc
 
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clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
Talent doesn't matter. It's all about determination. The greatest were at one point so bad that they were humiliated. Charlie Parker, Michael Jordan, maybe Kero one day
michael jordan didn't make varsity as a sophomore on a team that never took sophomores on varsity. They took one sophomore that year, because he was 6'7" and the team needed height. Jordan forced himself to believe he was humiliated, and proceeded to dominate the JV league. Jordan was never "so bad he was humiliated". Biggest motivating lie in sports.
 

thegreginator

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
372
Different activities have different degrees to which genetic "talent" is important for success. Being a world class sprinter absolutely requires the right genetics. Thinking you can get to Usain Bolt's level simply with enough training and determination is naive. Plenty of people have tried.

On the other hand, some activities require far less genetic "talent" for success. These are things that are driven primarily by practice and learned understanding. I would but Smash closer to this end of the spectrum than the "talent" end of the spectrum.
 

Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
Location
Luigi sucks
michael jordan didn't make varsity as a sophomore on a team that never took sophomores on varsity. They took one sophomore that year, because he was 6'7" and the team needed height. Jordan forced himself to believe he was humiliated, and proceeded to dominate the JV league. Jordan was never "so bad he was humiliated". Biggest motivating lie in sports.
That's my bad. Admittedly, i'm not a sports guy.

Anyway, I agree with greginator. Your body will obviously be more genetically fit for real life activities, like usain bolt, or like what I said about being tall probably being good for basketball. I was disagreeing more with cobr and the notion that something like musical ability can be genetically transferred when being in a musical environment is a way more plausible explanation.

Plus, shears, I thought the whole IQ thing being related to genetics (in the strictest sense of what the concept of IQ is) wasn't set in stone, given that there's some controversy regarding how IQ tests and such represent intelligence. I'd point to the fact that your cousin has an IQ of 200 but you don't, and more than likely neither will his kids if he ever has any. Or idk
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
People are always usually willing to accept that natural advantages exist in the physical sense, because the evidence for it is so clear and indisputable. Its not hard to say person A is just a better natural jumper than person B, or a better sprinter, etc.

People are very unwilling to accept that natural advantages exist in the mental sense. Part of it is because its so hard to nail exactly what is natural in intelligence and more importantly what exactly intelligence is. I think another part of it is that its become politically incorrect to say someone is more unintelligent than another person. People would rather say its their education or upbringing than acknowledge the fact that some people are smart than others.

Random story:

In high school, there were a pair of twins on my basketball team. Not the most intelligent people on the team (thought I went to a magnet school so they were smart), but they had one amazing talent no one could match. They had the ability to multiply numbers almost INSTANTLY. Give them any two 2-digit numbers and they would spit out the product in less than a second. Two 3 digit numbers would take about 2-3 seconds. How did they do this? Memorize tables? Spend hours practicing practicing? Nah, they were just good at it.
 
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Shears

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
3,146
Location
disproving indeterminism
Intelligence is mostly genetic, its just politically incorrect to announce it because it takes away peoples hope. Musical talent is also genetic. No one in my family has any musical talent. Not me, not my siblings, not my parents, not my aunts or uncles, not my cousins, no one. I don't come from a small family either, I have a very large family, and if music talent was just environment, than by rule of numbers someone in my family would have the slightest bit of musical talent. Instead, no one does because genetically it is not something that my grandparents possessed. The debate (maybe not on facebook or at a hipster bar, but in the scientific community) isn't so much that intelligence is genetic or not its exactly how to test it and which genes carry intelligence. They are leaning towards intelligence being carried on the X chromosome and with there being different tests to measure IQ that return marginally different results, the means to objectively map it all to a one-to-one relationship is what is debated.

Speaking of twins, I have an identical twin brother for anyone who didn't know (which I'm assuming is most of you) and we are exactly the same. People always ask us who is smarter or if we have different interests or anything because they like to believe that things can change even for people that are genetically identical. People like to believe that personality is something special to them and it wasn't defined by nature or nurture, they like to think the reason they do things, "make decisions", or their behavior is special and not predetermined by genetics. Unfortunately, those dreams are the stuff of pipes and we are not different, we are exactly the same, in every way. We took the same classes, got the same scores on tests and the SATs and had the same scores on AP exams. There is nothing special about you other than the assembly of your DNA, other than that, everything is controlled by your genetics and environment, you are a ball rolling down a hill.
 
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Sedda

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
2,393
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Luigi sucks
Isn't there a trick to multiply 2 digit numbers :laugh:?


hahaha jk.

Let me put it this way. No two people are alike genetically (Except for twins). That's a fact.
The way I see it is that that's the reason why you can have 10 people who are amazing at what they do within the same field, but all of them are probably better than the next one at different things within that same field too.

Yes... IQ varies from person to person, but I still believe that the environment that you're brought up in and live in is more important.

Shears, I still do not believe in musical talent being genetic. Research has been done and there's still nothing conclusive, so I don't believe that your genetic makeup can change like that just within a couple of generations, especially with what people even consider to be "musical talent." I think perfect pitch is a natural talent, I'll give you that.
I get that you can be fast, big, strong, and that your brain can be better at seeing patterns and problem solving. All of that translates to real life activities. Still, imo practice is way more important.
 
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ciaza

Smash Prodigy
Premium
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
2,759
Location
Australia
Not gonna get into the convo myself but releveant quote from m2k:

"My first time playing any humans was 2+ years after melee was released.

I made about 30+ stat lists for SSB64 (but never posted them online), then was able to make much more accurate ones as I got significantly smarter by age 13 and onwards.

Talent exists

but it is extremely overrated

how hard you apply yourself is --- FAR --- more important

in 2008 I was the best at Melee and Brawl at the same time for quite a while

at the same time, ONLY because i applied myself

To be VERY honest, half of you guys could probably do the same thing

You just have to really want it

I do believe a big reason for my slacking lately in melee isn't just controller related but it is also a lack of truely applying myself. Armada has been applying himself the most as of this past month for example, playing way more than I have. His results have reflected the amount he's applied himself. For those saying Mango wins cuz of talent, the dude dedicated his life to melee, plays a lot, and has tatoos of fox/falco

tl;dr - talent is overrated. Applying yourself is underrated (a lot)"
 
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NovaSmash

Banned via Administration
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
2,012
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Marietta, Ga
3DS FC
2079-8171-3301
Warning Received
it's just a normal discussion that invites all parties to understand others' viewpoints

from this, maybe there will be some sort of metagame advancement in the minds of players, albeit on a small scale

and despite the disagreements nobody is calling each other ******* who should go die
nice, trying to take shots at me with every post, good job. too bad thats not even true, but you are free to demonize me all u want behind the comfort of your computer screen. really shows how pathetic you are.
 
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