How to be good at Smash

[Mr Bushido]

make your movements unpredictable and if predictable unavoidable

 

[clubbadubba]

if i want advice at how to be good at smash i'll ask someone good.

****ing noobs i swear to god

 

[Sedda]

Yeah. Now Kero's gonna be running around starting threads about how to get top 8 at Apex

 

[Saltsizzle]

How to be good at smash: have stocks remaining at the end of a match while your opponent has none.

 

[Fireblaster]

To prevent this thread from getting locked I'll try to give the simplest advice that covers everything: Don't approach unless you have the advantage. This explains the entire current metagame including hyrule being banned.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Imagine your hitboxes are smaller and your opponents hitboxes are bigger.

Don't be a meglomaniac who wont change their opinion

 

[caneut]

Imagine your hitboxes are smaller and your opponents hitboxes are bigger.

Don't be a meglomaniac who wont change their opinion

The grudge is real.

On topic thread, go with what works. If an option works statistically most of the time, do it. But don't be afraid to branch out and discovery more option as you play your friendlies

 

[Fireblaster]

But don't be afraid to branch out and discovery more option as you play your friendlies

This is a valid statement

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-3-not-playing-to-win.html

 

[clubbadubba]

http://smashboards.com/threads/why-yall-arent-getting-much-better.256741/

I think this is something i need to start doing more of. Spent about 6-7 hours in training mode this weekend working on non standard combos, and when i play friendlies i'm trying to do more interesting stuff. standard only gets you so far.

 

[caneut]

You guys... I,

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

Train in a city with a rat infestation

 

[KeroKeroppi]

5 ways to get better at ssb

by kero the great

1) the beginning of the game 1 is the most important moment of a set. when the game starts, don't focus on getting a hit. instead, focus on the opponent's playstyle. focus on the opponent's patterns. getting a quick grab -> combo in the beginning of a game is NOT as rewarding as figuring out an opponent's bad habit. play for the future. in the beginning of a game, learning is more important than attacking. don't be obsessed with getting stocks. be more concerned with figuring out your opponent.

2) experience will only get you so far. it doesn't matter how well you know your character. it doesn't matter how well you know your opponent's character. it doesn't matter how well you know a match up. you're not playing a match up, you're playing a PERSON. figure your opponent out before you rely on your experience. don't assume you know how the game's gonna go. each player is different. if you're a pika player and think grab -> gimp works on every single fox player, you're sadly mistaken. if you're a falcon player that thinks up air chains work in every single falcon ditto, again, you're sadly mistaken. don't be standard unless your opponent let's you be standard. DON'T LET YOUR OPPONENT BE STANDARD.

3) don't try to be perfect. you're not. you have weaknesses. and knowing those weaknesses is just as important as knowing your opponent's weaknesses. it's what you do with your weaknesses that count. if your opponent can't figure you out, your opponent can't beat you. so don't let your weaknesses show. pretending you're perfect is more effective than trying to be perfect. get in your opponents head. make him think you're untouchable.

4) don't lose your composure. i know that it can be really hard not to, like i said, nobody's perfect. but being able to keep cool separates the boys from the men. losing faith in yourself during a game is without a doubt the most destructive thing you could possibly do. i've been there. it doesn't matter if you're getting outplayed or styled on. it doesn't matter if your tech skill isn't on point. it doesn't matter if you're playing like ****. if your opponent can beat you mentally, you've already lost. take a breather between stocks. take a breather between games. keep calm. on the flip side, if you see that your opponent is losing his composure, take advantage of that. break your opponent down. make him think he has no chance of winning. one dominant performance can destroy an opponent mentally. and if you beat your opponent mentally, you win.

5) in the neutral, remember how your opponent gets his hits on you. make sure you're not in those situations a second time. history repeats itself. likewise, remember how you hit your opponent in the neutral. recreate those situations.

i'm not numbering this, because it should go without saying, but BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. do NOT let the idea of losing ever enter your mind. you have to go into every single set assuming you're gonna win. a confident mind is the key to success. you can do it!

 

[KeroKeroppi]

lmao i wasn't gonna say it

but that is definitely the happiest ****ing dog i've ever seen

i feel like he's looking me dead in the eyes and is like

damn if there wasn't a screen separating us i'd lick you so hard right now

lol whaaaat

srsly tho

10/10 would pet

k

i'm gonna go eat some apple pie

later squirrel boys

 

[Maliki]

When I see pictures of dogs smiling like that I always think they have to be fake what dog is that happy.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

yo jake you should look up the vids of dogs who see their owners after they get back from war and ****

it's pretty heartwarming lol

and there's no more apple pie so i'm stuck making microwavable pizza

man ****

i'm so sick of ****ing elios

they're not as good as they were like 5 years ago

dude elios in its prime was solid af

but now i give it like 4/10

bring back the old elios and i'll be the happiest kid alive i swear to god

 

[Maliki]

Yo I've seen the videos those dogs get so pumped to see their owners.
But this dog is straight posing for the picture.

Celeste pizza > elios

 

[KeroKeroppi]

totinos >>>>>>>>>>>>>> celeste > elios

 

[Maliki]

totinos >>>>>>>>>>>>>> celeste > elios

True

 

[Mr Bushido]

i really liked your post kero but i didn't mean this thread to be taken seriously so unfortunately i cant acknowledge you

to now remove some of the seriousness of the thread

i will post a pic of something funny

but what would be funny you may ask

you see that is too subjective

i searched for "funny animal" in google images but nothing funny showed up IMO

what the **** is this **** dont people have a better sense of humor

there is nothing wrong with the way that chimpanzee looks

he is beautiful.

k

i guess that was a waste of time and maybe this thread could be taken seriously

OK

here is what i think everyone should know about movements in ssb64

you dont have to attack every time you jump or every time you run towards the other player

you can just jump, fast fall and land back. or in the case where you run you can just brake with the shield and dash pivot back the other way

**** yeah dash pivot back the other way thats a good idea

but you probably dont get it dont you

why am i wasting my time explaining this to a bunch of simpletons who dont get it anyway




**** this ****



z out

cashbah *******

 

[Maliki]

He said cashbah

yo idk why I found that funny.

 

[asianaussie]

dude dont tell people about empty jumps that's sekrit know-how

 

[Battlecow]

if you're a pika player and think grab -> gimp works on every single fox player, you're sadly mistaken. if you're a falcon player that thinks up air chains work in every single falcon ditto, again, you're sadly mistaken. don't be standard unless your opponent let's you be standard. DON'T LET YOUR OPPONENT BE STANDARD.

Not entirely true. Actually, entirely untrue. Knowing how to soullessly, mechanically optimize your punish game is a big part of being good (not, of course, all of it). In a lot of grab->gimp situations, the pikachu can cover all of the fox's options, or can make one really soft read and then act in such a way as to cover all of the fox's remaining options. I feel like those situations become more and more common (although they're hopefully never ubiquitous) as you reach higher and higher levels of play.

The SK/A$ advice is good because it lets you figure out more about the game in general, and exploring superfluous options is a good way to discover new useful options. But knowing how to turn that off and play optimally is way more important than knowing how to turn it on--your brother, for example, would be a much better player if he knew how to turn it off.

--Battle "smash theory is so much easier than smash" cow

 

[thegreginator]

Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.

-Kenny Rogers, Smash genius

 

[Shears]

Talent will only make you good at something, it is confidence that will make you great at it.

 

[Sangoku]

Pretty sure it's the opposite.

 

[Sedda]

Talent doesn't matter. It's all about determination. The greatest were at one point so bad that they were humiliated. Charlie Parker, Michael Jordan, maybe Kero one day

 

[Sangoku]

Who said that the people you listed didn't have talent? Maybe kero was bad and was humiliated, but that doesn't tell anything about talent.

 

[Sedda]

I don't believe in talent. People will define talent however they want, but if by talent you mean being born with special abilities, I don't believe in it, unless you're a savant because your brain is literally wired differently. Maybe people have better reflexes through genetics (I don't know anything about biology or how that/would work) that can allow them to get into some activities more easily than others, and being taller helps if you're interested in basketball, but you can get good at anything you're bad at.

I just dislike the idea of talent because it makes people overlook the huge amount of work that someone might invest into something. It's also a bad excuse to be mediocre if you're not talented "enough."

Also the people I listed were laughed at, and they deserved it. Then they practiced and practiced until they got good and proved everyone wrong. Tons of people are faced with the same situation all the time, and most of the time they are unable to bring themselves to try again. That's just a self esteem issue though

 

[caneut]

Well this thread turned to **** kinda.

Not entirely true. Actually, entirely untrue. Knowing how to soullessly, mechanically optimize your punish game is a big part of being good (not, of course, all of it). In a lot of grab->gimp situations, the pikachu can cover all of the fox's options, or can make one really soft read and then act in such a way as to cover all of the fox's remaining options. I feel like those situations become more and more common (although they're hopefully never ubiquitous) as you reach higher and higher levels of play.

The SK/A$ advice is good because it lets you figure out more about the game in general, and exploring superfluous options is a good way to discover new useful options. But knowing how to turn that off and play optimally is way more important than knowing how to turn it on--your brother, for example, would be a much better player if he knew how to turn it off.

--Battle "smash theory is so much easier than smash" cow

no

 

[KeroKeroppi]

if true talent does exist, then it means nothing in this game

every single one of us has the potential to surpass isai and be the best player in the world

it's the player that works harder than everybody else that will actually do it

 

[Cobrevolution]

there are some things people can just pick up and be really good at. i think talent is definitely a thing. unlike karma, which is bull****

i got a buddy who's a guitar player, the best i've ever seen, but he can get behind any instrument and learn a song on it within minutes. doesn't apply theory to anything, just knows.

same can be said of smash - there are people who only improve through analysis of information and repetitive practice, and only after a lengthy amount of time. and some just have a natural improvement that doesn't require hours of practice and get pretty good pretty quickly.

but it isn't about overlooking the amount of time some people spent or diminishing it. i mean, what's another way of putting it if someone can achieve twice as much as someone else, in half the time, with half the effort?

 

[Sedda]

Your buddy has probably developed good relative pitch from experience. As far as the improvement rate, it depends on your point of view and how you approach your goals IMO. Kinda what that A$ thread says about playing to win vs playing to learn.


Same with learning an instrument. I've seen people improve more with half an hour per day practice in 6 months than 2 hours per day within a year because of ****ty approaches. Do you really think your friend woke up one day and was good at music? If you asked him, he would probably give you a very simple point of view of how he goes about learning and playing that makes a bunch of sense. Unless he has perfect pitch (which goes back to the brain thing) he probably has really good relative pitch that he developed from learning songs over the years, trial and error blah blah
I know friends who don't know any theory but have very good relative pitch from just learning songs like that. It's not something that can't be explained

 

[Annex]

I don't think perfect pitch helps with that. Still have to learn relationships. Or you can just assume theyre only gonna be using I V IV VI vi and ii. You could do that without theory though, just good subliminal guessing

Also determination is good, but you're not going to become determined unless you have a need or passion, so I'd say those are best

 

[mixa]

talent + hardwork + environment

 

[Cobrevolution]

he has a genetic predisposition to being a talented musician (parents + grandparents all play something), but he still only took a few lessons from guitar and learned some stuff from his dad. but he can sit down behind a drum kit or a keyboard, or pick up a recorder or a flute, and play something. dude blew on a recorder and was playing tool's lateralus within a few minutes. makes no sense.

but i know another kid who took lessons for a while and can play all sorts of wonky technical ****, as well as rock out, but he can't touch another instrument. i know drummers who try to play guitar and just can't get their fingers to do it.

still, it goes beyond merely learning songs. and i don't think of him as a savant in that he can just write music in his head and knows how it'll sound - more that he has this natural ability that allows him to excel at anything music related. he plays **** dale lefty (thicker strings on the bottom), but can play just as well on a normally strung lefty.

in any case, i think there are multiple ways and approaches to become proficient at something, and i regard something coming second nature as a talent. everyone has things they just never needed to practice to be good at.

to relate this to smash - i'm sure everyone practices some way or another, even if they don't regard it as practice. some people nerd out in training mode, and others save their movement practice for in-game matches. some don't try combos on CPUs because CPUs are frame perfect and don't DI/react/etc, so they'd rather practice on humans. some naturally understand the distances characters can move and others have to memorize heights and lengths and etcetc.

i can't really think of players to compare for discussion. mango v m2k springs to mind, or maybe someone v kero.

 

[Sedda]

I don't think perfect pitch helps with that. Still have to learn relationships. Or you can just assume theyre only gonna be using I V IV VI vi and ii. You could do that without theory though, just good subliminal guessing

Also determination is good, but you're not going to become determined unless you have a need or passion, so I'd say those are best

Perfect pitch absolutely helps with that. You don't have to know any theory to learn songs quickly if you have perfect pitch and have applied it just a little. You don't need any theory regardless, but perfect pitch helps dude.

Back to smash tho, I do feel like I've improved just by thinking about learning in matches. I don't play to win anymore. The most annoying thing is knowing exactly what you're doing wrong and still keep on doing it. It's hard to get away from bad habits

 

[kys]

Of course talent is a thing. Sedda, that's the most ridiculous **** I've ever heard.

It goes along the same lines as the people who say, 'You can be whatever you put your mind to." Nope, not really. It's just a nice thing people like to say to make other people feel better.

I've got a cousin who is the most uncoordinated person on the planet. He could spend his whole life training and training, but there is no way he could ever become any sort of professional athlete.

As far as smash goes, the talent gap isn't as pronounced and it's harder to notice because 1) the game isn't popular and 2) requires less expertise than other things where we can see big differences in talent.

 

[Sangoku]

because CPUs are frame perfect and don't DI

I don't know why everybody says that. They have mainly two kind of DI: one that is inside you (or behind) and is bad if you know it and punish accordingly (allows Fox to continually jab Jigglypuff at lower percent than what would normally work), but the other one is up and this one is really good. In fact in a lot of situation it's better than 90% of human DI I've encountered. With this they can:
-Escape Yoshi's utilt by landing on the top platform (heavies/fastfallers).
-Mess up with Falcon's uairs (but you can always follow up, because falcon's uair).
-Combined with their frame perfect reactions, get aerials out when getting hit by dumb things, like a laser (and that's ridiculous sometimes).
-Escape Fox's jabs across the stage at high percent.

 

[Cobrevolution]

I don't know why everybody says that. They have mainly two kind of DI: one that is inside you (or behind) and is bad if you know it and punish accordingly (allows Fox to continually jab Jigglypuff at lower percent than what would normally work), but the other one is up and this one is really good. In fact in a lot of situation it's better than 90% of human DI I've encountered. With this they can:
-Escape Yoshi's utilt by landing on the top platform (heavies/fastfallers).
-Mess up with Falcon's uairs (but you can always follow up, because falcon's uair).
-Combined with their frame perfect reactions, get aerials out when getting hit by dumb things, like a laser (and that's ridiculous sometimes).
-Escape Fox's jabs across the stage at high percent.

the only time i've experienced CPUs DI is in 1p mode. in vs mode, i never see them move in any way that's out of the ordinary. then again, i only play falcon in vs mode by myself, so...

 

[Sedda]

I've got a cousin who is the most uncoordinated person on the planet. He could spend his whole life training and training, but there is no way he could ever become any sort of professional athlete.

Has he actually tried training? What do you mean by uncoordinated? Does he have any physical impediments? If he actually hasn't tried to do any "training and training" you can't assume that he can't ever be a good athlete because he's "uncoordinated;" whatever that means. Unless you mean he has a disability and gets into car accidents every corner he turns, there's nothing stopping the guy. That's the sort of thing I mean... You can absolutely do anything you want with the right training. Telling yourself that you can't because you're not talented enough is a bad excuse.

The can be other roadblocks to go along with the whole "you can do anything you want," like if a person is born into a poor family on some remote part of the planet and wants to become an astronaut. It would probably be really hard but definitely not because of any inherent physical qualities they may have.

Believing in talent in the way you guys describe it is like believing in Karma to me. It's just something people tell you when you grow up but there's no conclusive evidence for it. I definitely don't think Cobr's friends family's musicianship has anything to do with him being "talented" as far as genetics go... that's not how that works. Seems to me that it's more of a family custom and him being exposed to that environment early on that lead to him develop in that area.