How much charge does it take for Flare Blade to create an effective shield pressure game now?

[Solutionme]

This also includes what to follow up with after using the move, including the move itself.

 

[SafCar]

The move makes for some high approaches if we B Reverse it, other than that it can kill ~140%(?) uncharged. If we are using it in an aerial approach, it can throw people off with the hitbox and it has a surprisingly low amount of endlag.

 

[Gawain]

That's actually a pretty good question, and I wish I had hard numbers for you but all I've got is anecdote. I don't usually charge it much at all. As was said before as a high approach it works pretty decently. Also at the ledge it's not a bad choice either, as the IASA is fast so you can cover jumps as long as you release at the right time.

 

[Solutionme]

Mhm, if someone gets those calculations, then it's possible that we can confirm flare blade with about a 1 or 2 second charge when b-reversed can lead to a shield frame trap, so from there we can do some perfect pivot d-tilts to try and shield poke, or hell if the charge lasts a little longer, flare blade again or even charge f-smash and potentially break their shield. I think in about an average of 2 to 3 seconds flare blade already hits around 10 to 14% damage, but that's on gut feeling.

Edit: Can someone post Flare Blade frame data and shield stun data here? I'd be more than willing to calculate it to be the best of my ability. I'm also going to assume that while they're stuck in shield they are also stuck in the 7 frames of forced shield or are not, I also might have to assume they will attempt to jump OoS instead of dropping their shield so they don't get locked in.

 

[SafCar]

Here's the frame data
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Roy
Shield Stun Formula is (damage / 1.75)+2

 

[Solutionme]

So with the base damage of 5 we get 11.8 or if rounded either 11 or 12 frames assuming they're also waiting the 7 frames of holding up their shield. Minus 7 and you get 4 or 5.

Flare Blade FNAF is 45 with no charge and the hitbox comes out 23-26 so obviously no frame advantage as should be expected. So looking at the frame data and comparing it with fully charged you actually have a few more frames of endlag not charging it. The problem is each percent range isn't intricately detailed. it takes 19 to 22 frames to reach the endlag uncharged.

I'm going to go on assumption now and assume that 2 to 3 seconds worth of charging equates to around 14 damage and still uses the FNAF of an uncharged one. Those 2 to 3 seconds would basically be a b-reverse with some extra charging once you reach the ground. So without the forced shield frames 14 damage equates to 10 frames and 17 frames if you just popped your shield up.

*I'm not going to count those 2 to 3 seconds of charging towards frame data btw, I'm assuming they are in shield when it gets released already.

So with 14 from what it seems we might actually have an advantage on the opponent, even if they don't stay in shield they'd need something pretty darn quick, and assuming we space it well they'd be forced to spend a few extra frames getting close to us. To give you an idea they would need a move assuming they jump OoS that is at least 3 to 6 frames on start-up, unless there are certain frames in a jump in which one can't use a move?

If someone else can do it more rigorously and provide intricate data concerning Flare Blade itself then we can potentially figure out how to shield lock with flare blade for guaranteed follow-ups. Just imagine it, they either shield it or get killed by it, regardless they lose their stock. I'm not even considering the possible shield pokes due to shield damage.

Please criticize anything I might have missed or forgotten. Perhaps sound cues determine the FNAF or fully charged just has that added benefit of slightly less endlag when the move gets released?