How is Zero Suit Samus's performance in the elements of Brawl?

[DRaGZ]

Okay first off, please read this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199108

Second of all, the reason I am posting this here is because I don't have set-out summaries of Zero Suit Samus's performance in the elements of Brawl. So, I was wondering if you guys could do it, considering how you guys are the authorities on your own character.

Use this thread to discuss it, and then please post your results in the "Element of Brawl" thread linked above, using this format:

ZONING

• On the ground
• In the air
• Off-stage

SPACING

• Extreme long distance
• Long distance
• Medium distance
• Short distance

KILLING

• Killing power
• Gimping potential

Thanks a bunch.

 

[FadedImage]

I disagree with some of the stuff in the initial post, but I like the idea of quantifying a character's abilities. However, it's still just a completely arbitrary method that hopes to apply numbers to what everyone has already been saying.

Anywho, here's what I got:

ZONING

• On the ground
  
  Average - She's got a sub-par F-Smash and U-Smash. However, all of her tilts are extremely useful and her dash attack is good, too. Her first jab is great, but her jab combo sucks. Her D-Smash is a contender for best in the game. Her grab is awful. Overall, the weaknesses and strengths balance each other out.​
• In the air
  
  Above Average - Her jump speed is great. The speed of all of her aerials are basically amazing. She combos with U-Air with ease. KOs with B-Air and sometimes F-Air. However, when her opponent is below her, she can have problems since D-Air is pretty terrible.​
• Off-stage
  
  Above Average - Quick movement and control in the air means she can be exactly where she wants to be, and fast. She's got a long reaching, powerful B-Air, which is great for edgeguarding KOs. Her tether can be used to hog the edge without risk of being hit off of it. As far as recovery goes, she's got enough options to get back against anyone who isn't amazing at edgeguarding.​

SPACING

• Extreme long distance
  
  Bearable - Since she doesn't have a long reaching projectile of her own, hanging out at an extreme long distance can be a pain. She's got the ground speed (and a low crawl) and aerial speed to make up the ground quick enough so that it's not uncomfortable, but it's definitely borderline.​
• Long distance
  
  Comfortable - This is the distance where ZSS starts to shine. The threat of a short-hop side-b looms over every opponent, and if they close the ground too fast, they might catch a neutral-b or d-smash stun, which of course leads to large amounts of combo damage. This is mainly where ZSS wants to be, bouncing in and out between Long and Medium distances.​
• Medium distance
  
  Comfortable - Like I said above, this is where we want to be. Just in range for a side-b to sweetspot or a d-smash to catch rolling/spotdodgers. Any attempt to approach on the ground will be quickly punished with stuns or tilts. Perfect placement for ZSS.​
• Short distance
  
  Bearable - Once the enemy is past the danger zones of side-b, it also means we don't have time to start up a d-smash or neutral-b. This can be tough times for a ZSS, since her shielding game is rather sub-par (since grab and u-smash aren't that great). However, u-tilt and u-air out of shield get the job done, and her super fast jab/tilts will be able to pull the pressure off enough to make it bearable.​

KILLING

• Killing power
  
  Above Average - KO moves are (in order of power/usefulness): B-Air, U-Air, F-Air, Flipkick/spike, Side-B. Most of these can be used directly out of a D-Smash, so the D-Smash can basically be counted as it's own kill move. B-Air has great range and has decent speed. U-Air is super fast and can be combined with her insane jump height to catch people really high on the stage for a quick KO. F-Air does great damage and is great for offstage gimps since it has two attacks. Flipkick can surprise edgeguarders, making them the one recovering, and the spike can be used if an opponent is stunned off the stage. Side-B will usually only KO at really high percents or if we just died to refresh it (think Peach's F-Air).​
• Gimping potential
  
  Average - Not great, but gets the job done. Since her offstage game is Above Average she can use that to get early kills on people, however it's not something we ZSS mains rely on. If we're against a character with a bad recovery, we can exploit it fairly well, but we're not gonna be spiking people left and right.​

My numeric value for ZSS would be... 28

As for the method itself, I would suggest adding perhaps a "survivability" section, where you take into account their horizontal weight and vertical fall speed plus their recovery.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Faded pretty much put it all into good terms.

Zoning:
- On the ground: Average
- In the air: Above average
- Offstage: Excellent.

Spacing:
- Extreme long: Bearable
- Long: Comfortable
- Medium: Comfortable
- Short: Bearable

Killing:
- Power: Average. Although I agree with Faded, many spike kills can only be used on rare occasions. Against certain characters, setting up for a D-smash is incredibly hard. (I played against a great Fox today... wow that was annoying, I had to switch to Peach)
- Gimping: Below average. Again, alot of situational stuff comes up, relying on your opponents mistakes/hesitations/button mashing. While I rated ZSS as excellent offstage, most of that doesn't stem from the capability to gimp opponents.

Numeric Value: 27

Pretty much the same as Faded, and yes, a survivability section would work wonders. *looks at the survivability thread*

 

[paulzers93]

Hmm. No one mentioned the greatness of the Opposite Air. The opposite air is truly a great kill move as well, Faded. It is a lot more useful that U-Air and Side B sometimes due to its extremely fast execution and strength. I use it all the time and it catches many people off guard (especially for those rollers).

 

[DRaGZ]

I originally included survivability as part of "off-stage". Do you think it's pertinent enough to have its own section?

 

[DeliciousCake]

Hmm. No one mentioned the greatness of the Opposite Air. The opposite air is truly a great kill move as well, Faded. It is a lot more useful that U-Air and Side B sometimes due to its extremely fast execution and strength. I use it all the time and it catches many people off guard (especially for those rollers).

Opposite air? You mean b-air? Or are you just stupid?

 

[ph00tbag]

(I played against a great Fox today... wow that was annoying, I had to switch to Peach)

As I've gone along, I've realized that to beat a Fox you basically have to stick to your guns. Don't try anything fancy or he'll beat the crap out of you. This makes the match-up really boring and stupid. It's like cleaning a litter box. It stinks, and it's dirty, and you never want to do it, but it's really easy.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Faded pretty much put it all into good terms.

Zoning:
- On the ground: Average
- In the air: Above average
- Offstage: Excellent.

Spacing:
- Extreme long: Bearable
- Long: Comfortable
- Medium: Comfortable
- Short: Bearable

I completely agree with you.

 

[FadedImage]

I originally included survivability as part of "off-stage". Do you think it's pertinent enough to have its own section?

I think it is, because off-stage offensive and off-stage recovering are very very different things. Plus, survivability also includes things like, "Does your character's weight and fallspeed help or hurt a character's chance of recovering" (Think Link's insane fallspeed + bad recovery distance + bad jump height). Not to mention the importance of weight itself. Snake can survive to 180+%, that's a significant amount of extra time on each stock. Does that mean he's got good "off-stage" game? Hell no, I've NEVER seen a Snake jump out and perform an aerial on me to edgeguard, ever.

tl;dr: change "off-stage" to mean more of a gimp/edgeguard theme and add a "survivability" section.

Maybe that would change the set-up of your Gimping Potential section... hmmm.. chain reaction... lol.

 

[ph00tbag]

I think it is, because off-stage offensive and off-stage recovering are very very different things. Plus, survivability also includes things like, "Does your character's weight and fallspeed help or hurt a character's chance of recovering" (Think Link's insane fallspeed + bad recovery distance + bad jump height). Not to mention the importance of weight itself. Snake can survive to 180+%, that's a significant amount of extra time on each stock. Does that mean he's got good "off-stage" game? Hell no, I've NEVER seen a Snake jump out and perform an aerial on me to edgeguard, ever.

tl;dr: change "off-stage" to mean more of a gimp/edgeguard theme and add a "survivability" section.

Maybe that would change the set-up of your Gimping Potential section... hmmm.. chain reaction... lol.

Another thing that comes into recovery is air control speed. Note that Link is also down at the bottom for this.

 

[onii-chan]

Faded pretty much put it all into good terms.

Zoning:
- On the ground: Average
- In the air: Above average
- Offstage: Excellent.

Spacing:
- Extreme long: Bearable
- Long: Comfortable
- Medium: Comfortable
- Short: Bearable

Killing:
- Power: Average. Although I agree with Faded, many spike kills can only be used on rare occasions. Against certain characters, setting up for a D-smash is incredibly hard. (I played against a great Fox today... wow that was annoying, I had to switch to Peach)
- Gimping: Below average. Again, alot of situational stuff comes up, relying on your opponents mistakes/hesitations/button mashing. While I rated ZSS as excellent offstage, most of that doesn't stem from the capability to gimp opponents.

Numeric Value: 27

Pretty much the same as Faded, and yes, a survivability section would work wonders. *looks at the survivability thread*

quoted for truth...

also i think zss would have a very low survivability rate...being that she is very easy to kill with a horizontal attack and can be easy gimped but i also found here downb to be a better choice for recover on some stages like FD and Yoshi Island seeing as how you bounce of the wall and upb and do it again

also totally off subject but Cake i noticed that you main pretty much the same characters as me be: Zss first and Zelda second

 

[ph00tbag]

also i think zss would have a very low survivability rate

;_;

Seriously, this is so wrong. Quoth Snakeee, "A good ZSS does NOT get gimped." ZSS's recovery is very good. In fact, relative to the cast as a whole, it's about average. Compared to other Tether recoveries, it's down right unbeatable. She has the longest tethers, Plasma Wire gives you an upwards boost when used with a second jump, and then she has a third jump. Best of all, none of this puts her in a helpless animation. I don't know how you could put ZSS as having a bad recovery.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Quoth Snakeee, "A good ZSS does NOT get gimped."

Quothed for truth.

 

[FadedImage]

I'd place her survivability at average as well. Great jump height and recovery options counterbalanced by bad weight, fairly fast fall speed, moderately gimpable recovery (tether and one use horizontal-only third jump). Overall this lands her in the average category, she'll generally survive well into the 120s.

I think that's what survivability really means, on average, what percent are you dying at. Of course, there are a lot of factors to predict that, but in general, that's what I see it meaning.

 

[onii-chan]

quoted for truth...

also i think zss would have a very low survivability rate...being that she is very easy to kill with a horizontal attack and can be easy gimped but i also found here downb to be a better choice for recover on some stages like FD and Yoshi Island seeing as how you bounce of the wall and upb and do it again

also totally off subject but Cake i noticed that you main pretty much the same characters as me be: Zss first and Zelda second

quoted for better understandin of what i said -_-

 

[Taalcon]

You shouldn't be underneath FD or Yoshi's Island unless you get hit by something with a ridiculous angle of knockback like a spartan kick or something. DI up and you shouldn't ever get gimped from an edgehog blocking your tether.

 

[Adapt]

Here are my ratings:

Zoning:
- On the ground: Average (3)
Everything has been said here

- In the air: Amazing (5)
This is where I am most comfortable, she's quick and has long range attacks. She does have a blind spot underneath her, but she has enough airspeed and air options to cover this without difficulty

- Offstage: Above Average (4)
Faded covered this one.

Spacing:
- Extreme long: Bearable (2)
- Long: Comfortable (3)
- Medium: Comfortable (3)
- Short: Bearable (2)
These were all covered by Cake and Faded adequately.

Killing:
- Power: Average (3)
She doesn't have as many killing options as characters like DK or Snake, but it is really easy to hit with the ones she does have. Side-B, fair, bair, uair and down-B can all be used out of a stun and all kill in the 110-140 range.

- Gimping: Average (3)
I do enjoy following people off stage with fairs, bairs or side-B and then using my down-B and tether to get back. This is pretty effective at gimping a fair portion of the cast. She also has decent edge-guarding options that can gimp.

Survivability:
- Recovery: Easy (3)
- Staying Power: Intermediate (2)

These I already argued in the main topic.

Total: 33