How far should Smash 4 go with Tutorials?

[smashbrolink]

We've had a lot of discussion over Advanced Techniques so far [leave the flames of those wars outside these doors or I swear by everything Holy that I'll sick Navi, AND FI, on you while you sleep.], and during those *ahem!*"discussions"*ahem!*, I noticed a few people bringing up tutorials, and whether they should or should not be more comprehensive.

This is something that actually catches my interest, so I felt like bringing it more to the fore.

HOW FAR SHOULD SMASH 4 GO WITH TUTORIALS?

We know that both Melee and Brawl did a decent job, with their own tutorial videos, of showcasing the general concepts of the game, but I think we're all in agreement in saying that they definitely left quite a bit out.
There are A LOT of things in both Brawl and Melee that us players discovered and combined together to create entirely new amounts of depth to both games that the tutorials never came close to delving into.


Now, I'm of the opinion that I would personally love to see the tutorial videos go deeper.
Yes, people post on Smash Boards after discovering new techs and whatnot, but having them in the game itself would reach a much wider audience than merely placing it on Smash Boards.

Putting them in the game itself would give players that wouldn't normally look online for such information the chance to learn about these things much sooner, maybe even inspiring some of them to try and become more competitive.


However.....
Doing so comes with a couple of rubs.[that I've noticed]
The first rub, which is something I believe I've seen mentioned before, is the possibility that these "Advanced Tutorials" might actually make newer players shy away from the game a bit by making things seem more complicated than they really are for these newer players.[Yes, Sakurai believes that we'll see fewer newer players in Smash 4. He BELIEVES that. We're still certain to get a few new ones, however.]

My solution for that first rub, is actually pretty simple; have the Advanced Tutorial video be something that is UNLOCKED, only AFTER a specific amount of BOTH matches AND playtime has been surpassed.

The amount of time and matches is up for debate, but I feel that making this something that can only be seen after the player has had a decent amount of time and experience in playing the game, would make the Advance Tutorial feel less intimidating, because they'd already have a firm grasp of, and decent experience with, the basics needed to even begin implementing the more advanced stuff.

The second rub is a bit harder to solve without being detrimental to all of us.....

The time it would take to put together such a thing.

Think about this: in the other games, most if not all of those Advanced Techniques, and the various results that could be achieved by using them in differing ways, took us time to discover.
In some cases, literally months, if not close to or over a year's worth of play time.
By THOUSANDS of players.

If they were to do a thorough overview of all of the new things they'd likely add to an Advanced Tutorial, think about how long it would take their decidedly smaller play-testing teams to do a good job of covering all of those things in a concise way.

Can you say, DELAYS IN THE GAME'S RELEASE DATE?

The Wii U isn't selling too hot right now.[though arguably, 4M+ sales without a strong line-up is damned good]
Any delay in its bigger blockbusters wouldn't exactly help its situation.

In light of that second rub, no matter how much I'd like to see an Advanced Tutorial incorporated, the reality of it is that it would be detrimental to the system's overall health if something like this were released any later than it is likely already planned to be.


That's just my thoughts on it, though; I want to hear what the rest of you think about it.

 

[Kekezo]

Maybe if they just mixed the "advanced techniques" in with the regular tutorials, it would be less strange.

I think that for the tutorials, they should make them more interactive. Instead of just watching a video, they have you do it also.
I also mentioned in the advanced techniques thread the idea of kinda teaching as you went along in the story mode. Putting the player in situations where they need to use those advanced techniques to win or something.

 

[Tien2500]

Tbh I don't think Smash has a great need for tutorials, because of its robust 1P modes. There are a lot of different ways to practice and get better, even if there is little direct instruction.

As for tutorials serving as a compromise so that we can have ATs and casual players being happy, I don't think that's going to help. I think casual players just want a simpler experience that they can play at their own pace and reach a reasonable level of competence. I don't think they want to practice tactics or have a complicated list of techniques to be mastered.

 

[Ulevo]

One of the things you COULD do for a tutorial is have the player play the event mode games as the tutorial. For example, have the victory requirement for completing a stage to powershield an attack successfully of some kind. That would teach you what it does, and whats applications are.

 

[Ulevo]

Tbh I don't think Smash has a great need for tutorials, because of its robust 1P modes. There are a lot of different ways to practice and get better, even if there is little direct instruction.

As for tutorials serving as a compromise so that we can have ATs and casual players being happy, I don't think that's going to help. I think casual players just want a simpler experience that they can play at their own pace and reach a reasonable level of competence. I don't think they want to practice tactics or have a complicated list of techniques to be mastered.

It wouldn't be for the casual players who want to remain 'casual', for lack of proper articulation.

There are players whom, when playing a game, want to learn and grow more with the game. Whether if that be learning more about the specific backstories of the characters, or understanding game mechanics. A tutorial could only prove to be positive at best, and at worst just 'there' but not important, which is fine.

And again, I'll say this once more. Most advanced techniques are not that advanced. A lot of them are simple things regular players do all the time that don't have a defined specific name for it. Applying an understanding to these things would be cool.

 

[DakotaBonez]

They should have Resetti pop up before every match explaining how the stage hazards work if ya don't play that stage every day. If ya try to reset the console or turn off the power to make him disappear, force the player to watch a 3 and a half hour documentary on the intricacies that go into walking left, or right, and the consequences that could occur from doing so incorrectly. Disable the Wii U's power down function during this debacle...

Seriously what's wrong with the short tutorial vid they've included?

I would add events to the training mode that let ya practice the mechanics in action with Mario. Move with control stick. Good! Jump with Y. STAGE CLEAR! Next Event. Punch sandbag with A. Good! Press multiple times for combo. Good! Press a direction and A to break these targets. STAGE CLEAR! And so on and so forth until they got footstool jumping and ledge attacks down.

A stage for each character that combined the minigames from smash 64 (Board the platforms and Hit the Targets) would let ya practice moving to your characters limits and learning how specials can be maneuvered around obstacles.

 

[grizby2]

ive been nagging at the topic for tutorials for months. glad to finally see this thread!

the whole "making players use techniques along the way" idea reminds me of EgoRaptors mega man X video (I highly recommend watching it!) and how the game teaches the player the controls of the game without even telling the player at all. it also covers how games presented its basics to gamers back in the days.

samsh 4's tutorial shouldn't be TOO obvious, but it should be CLEAR, know what im sayin'?
I'll probably get back into this thread when I put my "man" face on, I promise!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

In a way, I am sort of glad there are no highly in-depth tutorials laying bare every sort of detail. Its sort of interesting to learn a year after playing the game of "Oh, I didn't know that!" with a certain character, game mechanic, and stuff. In a way it has also been the appeal to the smash series as well. I believe other fighters tell you about the various defensive mechanics of the game, but Smash does not at all. Its been fun to learn it along the way.

 

[grizby2]

I remember playing Yoshi's island and going through that tutorial stage. I believe you only played on that level once, and then the game threw itself at you.
but I suppose its different for a Fighting game to show you the "how-to's" as opposed to a platformer which have very solid goals. in fighting games, the only goal is to defeat your opponent, but you can do it in so many ways, so if the game were to tell you how to do that, it could take much longer than we expect it to be.

I can imagine the tutorials using sandbag as your training buddy. their shouldn't be any "video" as a tutorial, because the player learns more by actually doing something rather than just watching something saying "hey you can press this and you'll do this". players want to be able to test out this knowledge right away.

 

[Hyruleslink]

It wouldn't take too much effort to include another video or two.
There could be three quick videos...
1. The Basics (You must recover!)
2. Advanced Defensive Techniques
3. Become a KO Master

 

[SirPainsalot]

I wouldn't worry too much about the tutorials... Sakurai has a good track record when it comes to it.

If you played Kid Icarus: Uprising, you can choose to immediately jump into the action intuitively (increasing your skill as you play along) or learn how to play clearly. This is exactly how they should do it to help out those who might have trouble with controls.

I don't think Smash needs anything complicated. Brawl was the newcomer game, this doesn't need more time and effort in tutorials.

 

[grizby2]

the turtorials were okay, but I would much rather interact with them to test my own skills right on the spot.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

All the game needs is the "How to Play" video. For those wanting more advanced information, that's what we're for! Seriously, we know at any given time what the metagame is and can make tutorial content designed to help players succeed within said metagame. Sakurai and team have to guess what the metagame will be in the future for such content; any efforts they made as a guess would not work out that well most likely, and tutorial content in most fighting games tends to be fairly cumbersome precisely because of that (nothing's more fun than trial mode combos that aren't useful in real gameplay in any way, right?).

 

[smashbrolink]

All the game needs is the "How to Play" video. For those wanting more advanced information, that's what we're for! Seriously, we know at any given time what the metagame is and can make tutorial content designed to help players succeed within said metagame. Sakurai and team have to guess what the metagame will be in the future for such content; any efforts they made as a guess would not work out that well most likely, and tutorial content in most fighting games tends to be fairly cumbersome precisely because of that (nothing's more fun than trial mode combos that aren't useful in real gameplay in any way, right?).

You would be surprised how many people don't even know we exist, let alone want to join us here.
Having the videos would be an alternative for those that do advance far enough to start wanting to know about them, to give them their first glimpse and something to practice.
They might even act as a catalyst to take the player's interest into the online space to learn more about other advanced techniques that they think might exist but weren't covered for the video.
Think of it like a bridge into becoming something more than a purely casual player.

 

[grizby2]

I had an epiphany just now...
just put a hyperlink in the game that sends everyone directly to Smash Boards

 

[Xigger]

Same as always? More than Brawl, less than Melee. Same as always?

 

[TreK]

The best solution :
"Here is how you play this game
...
...
For more information, visit www.smashboards.com"

The most probable solution :
"Here is how you play this game
...
...
With this knowledge, you should be able to beat all your friends ! Go online and brag about your unmatched skills !"

 

[RODO]

More tutorials are never a bad thing.

 

[Priap0s]

I'm definently for more tutorials. I really like what people bring up in here aswell. Making them a bit more interactive would be a great way to go. Just split them up in categorys like "basics" "advanced" and so on. Have them accesible at all time in the menu.

You could even make them unlockables in story mode. When starting story-mode the basic tutorial shows, a bit later on you come to more advanced stuff and tips fitting for the upcomming stage (alot of games does this for the first few levels or levels when new elements get implemented). The videos and interaction part would then be unlocked and watchable/playable at any time throu the games menu.


I think tutorials can have a bigger impact then we think. The more players that reach a higher level of play the better (especially now with online, wich will hopefully be useable). Also it's important to show newcomers that the game has alot of depth (one of melees problems, I played that game for a long as time without knowing about it's depth. I can imagine people getting tired of it before even knowing its depth).

I think it would be dumb to trust that people would go here and find everything out... A very small part of smash players even know of smash boards existence and I don't see why Nintendo would direct people to learn from a site they are not even involved with (or can control the content on). I guess smahs bros miiverse page might help alot with educating and making better players aswell.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the most pressing question is HOW to teach these things and arguably what.

I'd start off with this order: Controls, Recovery, Fundamentals, DI, Advanced Techniques.

I really like the idea that these tutorials are unlocked over time. This way, learning everything isn't so overwhelming. I think a wonderful idea would be to include character tutorials.

 

[Ulevo]

All the game needs is the "How to Play" video. For those wanting more advanced information, that's what we're for! Seriously, we know at any given time what the metagame is and can make tutorial content designed to help players succeed within said metagame. Sakurai and team have to guess what the metagame will be in the future for such content; any efforts they made as a guess would not work out that well most likely, and tutorial content in most fighting games tends to be fairly cumbersome precisely because of that (nothing's more fun than trial mode combos that aren't useful in real gameplay in any way, right?).

It's not about trying to define a metagame, or really anything related to competition. It's about showing and guiding your player through how to play your game properly. Sure, the how-to-plays were okay. But imagine if the single player events had events that required you to reflect a projectile from a stage hazard to complete it? That kind of direction towards designing your game will help to teach players how to play in a rewarding and fun way that makes them feel accomplished without the context of a competitive environment.

There are just some things the how-to videos don't teach. Which is fine because you don't want to make it too long.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I think it would be really nice if they made short little videos for each character showcasing their unique characteristics. Not unlike how sakurai showcased Megaman during the developer direct. Maybe not narrated with a VoiceOver, but using text. But maybe a narrator would be cool, but its definitely something that has no precedent n smash, since past narrators have done little more than say phrases at a time and never whole sentences.

 

[Xigger]

Lets get some perspective people: Smash Bros is meant to be a party game that anyone can get into, while still being in depth, much like Pokemon. Marvel vs Capcom 3 is in a similar boat with advanced tutorials, but that's not how Nintendo rolls. Not every technique and detail needs to be taught, because training to hone skills is NOT what a party game needs.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

The next question is: Who should be the charascter(s) in the tutorial?
Again Mario Versus Bowser or The Wii Fit Trainer versus her alternate color version?