How does one properly DJC?

[ChestyLaRue]

I'm struggling to find the usefulness/ability to perform this technique. Does it completely replace shffling? Do you still need to L-cancel your aerial or attack performed using a DJC?

The only way I've been able to do it is tapping (X) or (Y) extremely quickly the using an aerial. I can't imagine HOW I'd use this in conjunction with wave dashing and L-cancelling without months/years of technical practice and nothing more, which just turns me away from the character.

 

[_slydz]

First of all, always L-cancel your aerials. The best method for djc aerials is to use X or Y for the first jump, then use tap jump (up on the analog stick) for the double jump. This gives your right thumb time to move down to the c-stick. djcing gives you control over the height of the attack. If done properly, Lucas' djc fair can hit Squirtle during his forward b (sliding around in his shell), which is REALLY close to the ground. djcing also makes the attack come out quicker than if you use a short hop. It's a good idea to know how to shffl, especially if you want to use another character at some point. I shffl dair and nair with Lucas more often than djcing them, but that's personal preference. It really doesn't take that long to learn how to djc decently well. Learning how to do things like djc retreating fair out of aerial magnet definitely takes practice, but grounded djc fair/uair are pretty easy to learn and use in a match.

 

[NeonApophis]

^Very good explanation, but djc doesn't make the attack come out quicker. It actually takes one extra frame since you have to double jump rather than being able to attack immediately after you leave the ground. The benefit is that you spend less time in the air, so you can land and start doing other things sooner than you can out of a short hop.

 

[chrome12345]

could someone please explain what a double jump cancelled forward b looks like? And how far does it travel compared to a regular short hop pk freeze?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

It's really something you have to feel, it's kinda hard to explain it, but the right height to do it (from memory) would be something like a little less than his short jump height. It's length isn't really the best part, the best part is actually that it cancels when you hit the ground allowing you to act on a confirm quickly and get something started/kill with DACUS.

Also, on Nair and Dair, DJCing them isn't even that great, haha. SHFFL is definitely better with those two whereas you'll want to DJC Fair and Uair for the majority, though they actually both work well with full hops/short hops.

 

[_slydz]

Sometimes I short hop, wait til the highest point of the jump, then djc dair or nair as a mixup to shffl because you stay in the air longer, which sometimes helps when your opponent is expecting you to shffl. I meant using djc nair/dair at all is a personal preference, lol. Sorry for the weird wording

 

[ChestyLaRue]

how does one DJC magnet and side B properly? I'm struggling with the B commands

 

[_slydz]

Use Y to jump and double jump for pkf, because it's closer to B than X is, and just use short hop for magnet

 

[Ghetto Blush]

I have problems with djc PKF as well. I find that Y->Y->B can be kind of hard to pull off without just getting the same amount of air time as a sh PKF. Tap jump might be easier to use for the double jump but then I would think that moving the stick to either left or right for the PKF may be difficult as well.

 

[NeonApophis]

Yeah, there's no point in DJCing magnets since they stop your vertical momentum anyways. Unless you just mean doing a magnet after a double jump, in which case you just have to be fast.
Y -> Y -> B for DJC pkf is also correct. I position my thumb so that I press Y with the tip and B with my knuckle for a lot of things, including djc pkf and multimagnets. It's just a lot easier if you don't have to actually move your thumb around.

 

[DeFish]

I've actually rebound L to Jump to make DJC a little bit easier. I'll still normally use Y for the first jump, but my second one almost always comes from the L button.

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

How would you do a B-reversed DJC PKF? (more like when does the B-reverse get inputted?) I feel like that could help spacing with minimal punishment

 

[Y-L]

How would you do a B-reversed DJC PKF? (more like when does the B-reverse get inputted?) I feel like that could help spacing with minimal punishment

Y->Y->Change Direction->B

 

[Y-L]

I've got a question about DJC Aerials. Quickly moving to the c-stick is pretty challenging and I find c down to be the easiest. Often times I have trouble doing c forward when moving that quickly to the c stick and I accidently an angle closer to down which causes a dair instead of fair. How do you guys get fairs in quicker?

 

[EIiitti]

I've got a question about DJC Aerials. Quickly moving to the c-stick is pretty challenging and I find c down to be the easiest. Often times I have trouble doing c forward when moving that quickly to the c stick and I accidently an angle closer to down which causes a dair instead of fair. How do you guys get fairs in quicker?

I use custom controls just for Lucas. B to jump and X for specials, tap jump on because it's so much better than using buttons. This allows me to do DJC and SHUFFL moves with C-stick with less thumb movement than with Y/X jump and no clawing necessary. DJC everything is pretty easy after a couple hours of training.

 

[Badge]

Y->Y->Change Direction->B

Nope, B-reversed DJC PKF would be Y->Y->SideB->opposite direction (within 4 frames). B-Reversing is the act of reversing the direction of your special after it was initiated resulting in a complete momentum reversal. It allows some pretty funny movement with DJC PKFs like jumping in one direction, double jumping in the other and then B-reversing a late PKF.
If you reverse your special before activating it, your momentum is unaffected - that's what would happen with the inputs you suggested. I believe that would be called a B-Turnaround, but don't quote me on this.

I've got a question about DJC Aerials. Quickly moving to the c-stick is pretty challenging and I find c down to be the easiest. Often times I have trouble doing c forward when moving that quickly to the c stick and I accidently an angle closer to down which causes a dair instead of fair. How do you guys get fairs in quicker?

I just claw everything. If you don't want to do that (most people don't), there still are different tricks that might help you.
Custom controls is one way. The control scheme I have heard of most often is setting Z to jump and using any of R/L+A, X/Y, R/L for grabs. The second to last post right now in the general discussion thread actually recommends doing this and apparently it makes many things much easier once you're comfortable with the new controls. Relearning the control scheme is strange at first and takes some time, but if you intend to ever optimize your controls for easier gameplay, you should do it as soon as possible, i.e. now.
If you also don't want to do that you can try to operate the C-stick with the lower part of your thump. Neon does something like this (see above). Requires less relearning of controls, but feels the most straining to me personally. Might just be a matter of preference though.
Finally, should nothing else work for you, you can also just train more. It'll take a while, but if you just keep practicing your ATs every day, you'll get fast enough eventually.

 

[G13_Flux]

I've got a question about DJC Aerials. Quickly moving to the c-stick is pretty challenging and I find c down to be the easiest. Often times I have trouble doing c forward when moving that quickly to the c stick and I accidently an angle closer to down which causes a dair instead of fair. How do you guys get fairs in quicker?

Trust me, you need to go into training mode and do this a hundred times over. it becomes very second nature after awhile and you become able to do it without much effort at all. you just need to build up muscle memory. The method described with first hitting Y/X, then tap jump, then c stick works great for me for all except neutral aerials. Its actually relatively easy for me now, so trust me, it can be done.

 

[Y-L]

Trust me, you need to go into training mode and do this a hundred times over. it becomes very second nature after awhile and you become able to do it without much effort at all. you just need to build up muscle memory. The method described with first hitting Y/X, then tap jump, then c stick works great for me for all except neutral aerials. Its actually relatively easy for me now, so trust me, it can be done.

Yeah I mean I don't have a hard time doing it at all I just have bad accuracy with my c stick. I tend to c forward at more of a downward angle and it comes out as a dair instead of fair.

 

[G13_Flux]

yeah i know what you are saying. just make sure that whenever you do it, you recognize it and put a little bit more effort into tilting it the right way. dont get frustrated either, thats the worst thing you can do. My roomate gets extremely frustrated whenever he isnt doing well and it makes him do progressively worse and worse. Just focus on it, youll get it down consistently after a bit.

 

[Inserio]

I just claw everything.

This. Though then I occasionally get the problem of inputting stuff too fast, so the hitbox doesn't even come out. With practice, that problem dissipates as well though.
I even learned to use my middle finger on R since I use R and Y to wavedash.

 

[Morbellix]

When you DJC a fair/uair can/are you supposed to fast fall them?

 

[G13_Flux]

typically you do, but im not gonna say that you always do because there may be sometimes where the situation might call for different timing. For instance, to do the quickest possible aerials as low as possible to the ground, you dont want to FF it because then you will land before the attack comes out.

with other characters, like ness, you might not want to FF sometimes to allow your fair to be out as long as possible. with lucas, almost always FF since that makes you faster, but like i said, you need to use proper judgement to understand certain situations where FF wouldnt be needed/wanted.

 

[Morbellix]

Alright, thanks man.

 

[PunkAaron]

What's the general consensus on bairs?