How does one fight jiggs?

[Bu$]

Any and all advice on the jiggly matchup. Including stage bans and cp's. PLz and Ty.

 

[TigerBizNiz]

Keep her grounded.

 

[Nicco]

I'm pretty decent at this match-up. It's really not that bad when you understand what you can and can't do.
I don't agree with keeping her grounded. In fact you want to wait until she throws out an aerial, usually bair, and then get under her and uair her. I don't use alot of nairs in this matchup, but they might work as a defensive tool. Instead I throw out alot of bairs. They're really good against Jiggs. I recommend learning how to pivot into a bair and also moonwalking into a bair.

If she does alot of full hops, I like do a rising full hop stomp, and sometime double hop after the first stomp into another, using the first stomp as bait. These are great for catching Puff out of how own full hop.

Throw out some knees as well. They kill her pretty early, and they also combo quit well into eachother. Edgeguarding puff is pretty hard. I just try and bair or uair her as much as I can when she's off-stage.

THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR

Jiggs can duck under both your grab and your jabs/gentlemen. Worse yet, they can rest you if you try and go for these. If you do manage to grab her, you can almost always uair her after a d-throw. Always throw her as soon as possible to minimize her chances of good DI. Not sure about the percentages where you can knee. Propably around 60-120. But some puffs won't react too quickly, so sometimes you can knee from d-throw at any %. Some puffs try and rest you after you d-throw when you go for the knee. If they like to do that, try and bait their rest, then taunt and falcon punch her.

Always DI away and down to avoid getting rested after she d-throws you.

Don't ever roll into her. Jiggs players look for these to score easy rests.

ALWAYS tech. They love jab resetting into rest.

And stay mobile. Make it hard for her to hit you.


Good luck

 

[Nicco]

Any stage is fine against Puff. Dreamland is propably the worst, but gives you alot of room to work with. FoD can be trouble too.

I like stadium and FD with puff. BF and YS are nice too, but gives you less space to work with.

 

[TigerBizNiz]

I'm pretty decent at this match-up. It's really not that bad when you understand what you can and can't do.
I don't agree with keeping her grounded. In fact you want to wait until she throws out an aerial, usually bair, and then get under her and uair her. I don't use alot of nairs in this matchup, but they might work as a defensive tool. Instead I throw out alot of bairs. They're really good against Jiggs. I recommend learning how to pivot into a bair and also moonwalking into a bair.

If she does alot of full hops, I like do a rising full hop stomp, and sometime double hop after the first stomp into another, using the first stomp as bait. These are great for catching Puff out of how own full hop.

Throw out some knees as well. They kill her pretty early, and they also combo quit well into eachother. Edgeguarding puff is pretty hard. I just try and bair or uair her as much as I can when she's off-stage.

THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR

Jiggs can duck under both your grab and your jabs/gentlemen. Worse yet, they can rest you if you try and go for these. If you do manage to grab her, you can almost always uair her after a d-throw. Always throw her as soon as possible to minimize her chances of good DI. Not sure about the percentages where you can knee. Propably around 60-120. But some puffs won't react too quickly, so sometimes you can knee from d-throw at any %. Some puffs try and rest you after you d-throw when you go for the knee. If they like to do that, try and bait their rest, then taunt and falcon punch her.

Always DI away and down to avoid getting rested after she d-throws you.

Don't ever roll into her. Jiggs players look for these to score easy rests.

ALWAYS tech. They love jab resetting into rest.

And stay mobile. Make it hard for her to hit you.


Good luck

Can all of these work playing as Ganondorf? (Minus the knee of course.)

 

[Nicco]

I don't play alot of Ganon, but most of it applies I'm sure. Ganon's uair is stronger, but getting under her will be more tricky with slow Ganon. I'm sure his fair works wonders against Jiggs, especially against her ground game. The uair spike is propably also a good way of edgeguarding her. I forgot to mention uair OOS. This is pretty good for both CF and Ganon in this matchup.

 

[Bu$]

I'm pretty decent at this match-up. It's really not that bad when you understand what you can and can't do.
I don't agree with keeping her grounded. In fact you want to wait until she throws out an aerial, usually bair, and then get under her and uair her. I don't use alot of nairs in this matchup, but they might work as a defensive tool. Instead I throw out alot of bairs. They're really good against Jiggs. I recommend learning how to pivot into a bair and also moonwalking into a bair.

If she does alot of full hops, I like do a rising full hop stomp, and sometime double hop after the first stomp into another, using the first stomp as bait. These are great for catching Puff out of how own full hop.

Throw out some knees as well. They kill her pretty early, and they also combo quit well into eachother. Edgeguarding puff is pretty hard. I just try and bair or uair her as much as I can when she's off-stage.

THINGS TO LOOK OUT FOR

Jiggs can duck under both your grab and your jabs/gentlemen. Worse yet, they can rest you if you try and go for these. If you do manage to grab her, you can almost always uair her after a d-throw. Always throw her as soon as possible to minimize her chances of good DI. Not sure about the percentages where you can knee. Propably around 60-120. But some puffs won't react too quickly, so sometimes you can knee from d-throw at any %. Some puffs try and rest you after you d-throw when you go for the knee. If they like to do that, try and bait their rest, then taunt and falcon punch her.

Always DI away and down to avoid getting rested after she d-throws you.

Don't ever roll into her. Jiggs players look for these to score easy rests.

ALWAYS tech. They love jab resetting into rest.

And stay mobile. Make it hard for her to hit you.


Good luck

Thanks man, tips noted.

 

[Jeapie]

most times i just switch charackter and pick fox.. I find this mu to be impossible


As a falcon vs jiggz this is what i would do:

-Use bair to kill. Knee wont hit against a good puff.
Using nair as falcon could get you killed in many ways. use more uairs in this mu.

-If jiggz ducks your grab you get rested.
Downtrow knee is hard to land. Downtrow uair is safer to land.

-Bann Dreamland

-Falcon kick gets you out of sticky situations, most times.

-Try to lock her on the ground ( Keep her grounded like said in the posts before this one )

- Hitting a knee is crucial for a low % kill. Dood luck hitting it though. Its so hard to land on her

- Scream from the top of the building when beating her to decrease her morale for her counterpick, (^_^)

Good luck,

 

[Nicco]

I forgot to mention CCing. At early percent you can CC any of her aeriels into whatever you like. (Knee is usually best as it leads to more knees.)

And Jeapie, really?! You switch to fox? Don't you know you can lose your balls by doing that?

 

[Jeapie]

I forgot to mention CCing. At early percent you can CC any of her aeriels into whatever you like. (Knee is usually best as it leads to more knees.)

And Jeapie, really?! You switch to fox? Don't you know you can lose your balls by doing that?

Teach me how to play against that horrible pink ball then

 

[Aggromidget]

I don't get a whole lot of Puff practice, but what I've found to work is try to get to the vertical. Either be directly above (for the difficult-to-punish stomp) or below for the u-air. If he's on the stage (on the some level/height) with me, what I've done, and seems to work fine, is dash dance, throw out knee or stomp (I think stomp is most effective here) and run the heck away if he doesn't get hit by it. Rinse and repeat. I don't know how long this will work, so I'd like to hear what you guys do

 

[oksas]

iirc Hungrybox said Wizzrobe is the only falcon that can beat him lately, maybe Wizzrobe has some advice on the matchup? I really don't like feeling like I should be switching characters for any matchup

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Stage control is #1
Puff can control space far better when she's at ground level or slightly below Falcon. (being directly above is scary for puff, but getting up there safely is hard for falcon if the puff is spacing well)
Dashdance around and uair her whenever possible.
Force her to go to the edge to get back safely because if puff is above you, you usually have the advantage.
Shielding dropping is pretty good
Nair works as a combo extender when uair hits them too high.
Just try and play safely and don't go for a lot grounded grabs and finishers.

 

[Aggromidget]

Stage control is #1
Puff can control space far better when she's at ground level or slightly below Falcon. (being directly above is scary for puff, but getting up there safely is hard for falcon if the puff is spacing well)

Running full hop, throw out stomp? Even if you trade with its b-air, I consider it a win, cos then it's considerably closer to kill percent, whereas falcon, although can be combo'd fairly easily, survives to higher percents.

Dashdance around and uair her whenever possible.

I feel dash dance is good against puff, but u-air on low percents only, cos (I) can't follow up the u-air with any other hit, whereas knee sends them far off. I reckon the stomp is the way to go, controlling the vertical.
Edit: u-air whenever puff is in the air

Nair works as a combo extender when uair hits them too high.

Against any floaty characters, I rarely, if ever, n-air (save for single-hit n-air). Against spacies, and the heavier characters, the n-air is effective because you can get the double hit, followed by a regrab or whatever, whereas it's incredibly difficult to get both hits on the floaties. If you only connect with the first hit of n-air, it just resets them in place. If you hit with the second kick, maybe that sets up an u-air, which would send them off stage. Floaty characters are hard to combo, which is what the n-air sets up. I prefer to do the hit and run, trying to secure "safe" hits. The safest of which, I believe is the stomp. I've also found Falcon's b-air can compete, and u-air pushes them off stage for edge guard. I generally stick to the heavy hitters (I wonder how many times I've repeater myself)

I'd like to hear what you guys think of my strat

Edit: re-reading, I guess every aerial is useful, except for the n-air, against the puff...
u-air when puff is above,
knee when puff is grounded, or off a throw (difficult to hit puff in the air)
stomp whenever
b-air whenever, although restricts movement if you want to continually throw it out

 

[Wizzrobe]

You DO NOT want to keep puff grounded, when puff is grounded there is so ridiculously little falcon can do.

When puff is grounded, she can control space so much better (like said before), and she can crouch constantly. when puff is crouching all your aerials become worse basically. nair won't do anything when she's crouching because she will be CC'ing it. And WHILE she is crouching she can shield immediately so she can safely react to stuff like stomp. She is so small that she's so hard to hit and it's hard to get anything started. What I usually do is stomp and just hope it hits her while shes crouching,(lunging forward stomp. so i can safely land decently behind her and hit her along the way.) (it usually hits a little more often then you might think) and then if it hits, chase her get-up roll/get-up whatever.

When puff is in the air that's when you win, you want puff in the air cause u can u-air.

If puff is in the air trying to land on the ground you mindset should be DO NOT LET HER DOWN.

If the puff likes to do full hop bair walls or full hop whatever, you can run under them and instant u-air if your fast enough. If puff is short hopping it's hard to hit her.

Basically what you want to do in this MU is play super patient, and just keep poking aerials at puff until one hits ( hit and run away tactics.) Once one hits, you make sure to keep that combo going for as long as possible. You also really need to mix up your movement so puff has a hard time telling what your going to do/when your going to approach.

Nair is basically your wall like usual, if puff accidentally jumps in your nair you can get some good combos going.

When fighting puff, lots of times you just have to read her movement to hit her.

D-throw is your BEST tool in this MU for sure. D-throw knee obviously, and at low percents you can chain knees (be careful though at 0-10ish% hbox or a really good puff can rest you out of d-throw if u go for knee.) (I'm not entirely sure if this is a legit frame trap or if we can possibly space a knee and still hit but i would just u-air at that low of a percent just to be safe.) but anything slightly above that u can chain 2 knees. or if you really believe the puff won't go for a rest when u d-throw knee her at like 0-10%ish then go for a knee so you can chain 3 possibly. (pretty sure if good DI the 3rd knee won't hit.) Also, when puff is at really high percents it can be hard to kill her because it's so hard to land a knee. D-throw is the best way to kill her at that percent too (unless she is so high percent that u-air kills but that's really high.)

The main problem with d-throw though is you need to get a grab, and puff can crouch your grab. So what you want to do is not spam grab but use it conservatively. For example, you go for a grab, your next grab should have a good amount of time in betweenbecause your not using it a lot. The less you go for a grab the less likely a puff will expect you to grab. So, after not using grab for a little bit, pull it out again and the puff won't expect it near as much as they would be if you used it a lot. The chance of them reacting to your grab is much lower. So, don't just spam grab or use it too much.

When puff is in your face or pressuring your shield, Don't even challenge it honestly, just roll away and get out of their fast so you can return back to neutral. (unless the puff is not good then you could probably challenge it)

if puff grabs you her b-throw throws you surprisingly far for such low percent so try to stay away from the ledge and closer to the middle of the stage, cause it's falcon, once he is offstage vs puff he should be guaranteed dead. (although, on yoshi'sstory u can actually make it back sometimes surprisingly.


I honestly think yoshi's story is the best stage vs puff,while you sacrifice room, theres still a little bit I feel like where you can run away. But most importantly, you can cover a lot of room since the stage is so small.so if puff is in the air and trying to get on stage, you can cover a lot of the stage with your long legs with u-air and stuff. Also, early kills! Puff will die around 60% from knee. There are so many times when I knee puff on other stages at mid-high percent and she just barely does not die. The early kills on yoshi's are worth it. Also, a little bonus is that sometimes u can actually recover back on yoshi's. (randall, smaller stage so up-b's distance feels better, walljump.)

I ban either dreamland or FoD, right now I'm thinking FoD but i'm not completely certain yet.

While you have room to maneuver on DL, puff also doesn't die from a knee till around 100%ish vwhich is stupid since it's already so hard to hit puff.
FoD messes up your movement which is REALLY important vs puff. And it messes up your combos cause of platforms so this stage seriously messes you up. Also, the stage is small like yoshi's story which is bad, and the blastboxes aren't even small like yoshi's they are wide.

Right now I think I ban FoD.

all the other stage aren't even good they are kind of bad but better than DL or FoD, although 2nd best would be Pokemon stadium I would say. (Hbox hates this stage with a passion and always bans it vs me) even though i think yoshi's is better.

ONE MORE thing: You can't really edgeguard puff, when she is offstage and coming back to the stage I like to run offstage DJ u-air to cover right below the ledge if she goes there and ill be high enough that DJ will still get me back on stage safely.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

^ THIS

Also, Bair is a great KO move against puff.

 

[Aggromidget]

Wow! Thanks for your input Wizzy. I agree with you about the stages. 2 points of contention:
1. When puff is ground, what can he do to stop you from full hopping above him, where he will struggle to contend the stomp. I understand he can just run away, but that's not bad. You can just do it again.
2. I reckon n-air is quite useless because that means you're challenging the horizontal, where puff excels, since it'll be spamming/spacing b-air. You'll likely trade your n-air with its b-air which means you can't follow up the n-air with something like u-air

 

[Wizzrobe]

Wow! Thanks for your input Wizzy. I agree with you about the stages. 2 points of contention:
1. When puff is ground, what can he do to stop you from full hopping above him, where he will struggle to contend the stomp. I understand he can just run away, but that's not bad. You can just do it again.
2. I reckon n-air is quite useless because that means you're challenging the horizontal, where puff excels, since it'll be spamming/spacing b-air. You'll likely trade your n-air with its b-air which means you can't follow up the n-air with something like u-air

1. You can full hop stomp puff but she can just react with shield since it has reactable start-up, and landing stomp has decent cooldown so puff can probably bair u OoS.

2. Nair isn't really useless it can trade sometimes but you need some kind of wall to threaten puff and nair hits sometimes and can combo into a lot of stuff. I don't think it trades as much as u think.

 

[Smokey Huntz]

You wanna devote yourself as little as possible, I never try for going for more than one hit if I'm not convinced it'll hit.
Up air's are your best friend
stomp knee works(it's a better punish on rest than falcon punch most of the time)
watch how Silent Spectre does it, despite being mad old he's got the core concept of running away and attacking when you can so watching him can help you see what you should look for with openings and stuff

 

[Wizzrobe]

You wanna devote yourself as little as possible, I never try for going for more than one hit if I'm not convinced it'll hit.
Up air's are your best friend
stomp knee works(it's a better punish on rest than falcon punch most of the time)
watch how Silent Spectre does it, despite being mad old he's got the core concept of running away and attacking when you can so watching him can help you see what you should look for with openings and stuff

Usually when u stomp jiggz when she misses a rest she will be holding down so that she won't pop up in the air. SO stomp knee wouldn't work against hbox or good puffs probably.

Stomp, and chase the get-up roll/inplace/attack after stomping if they hold down or just falcon punch.

 

[Aggromidget]

Usually when u stomp jiggz when she misses a rest she will be holding down so that she won't pop up in the air. SO stomp knee wouldn't work against hbox or good puffs probably.

Strange. I'm assuming when that's puff at < 30%. Alternative to stomp if they expect it - knee?

 

[Smokey Huntz]

Knee is better than falcon punch in the case of punishing rest I'm pretty sure(could be wrong) I think it does more damage so if a falcon punch won't kill it's better to go with knee

 

[Ziodyne]

I am pretty sure Falcon punch does more damage than knee lol

I think stomp is still a great punish for rest at low%, at the very least you get a tech chase and you work from there. I dunno what kind of follow-ups you can even expect from knee if she DI's down.

I know Falcon Punch will kill Jiggs way earlier than knee, so don't knock it when it's usually guaranteed death for Jiggs around 20-30% or so (or more depending on stage of course).

 

[Aggromidget]

I am pretty sure Falcon punch does more damage than knee lol

I think stomp is still a great punish for rest at low%, at the very least you get a tech chase and you work from there. I dunno what kind of follow-ups you can even expect from knee if she DI's down.

I know Falcon Punch will kill Jiggs way earlier than knee, so don't knock it when it's usually guaranteed death for Jiggs around 20-30% or so (or more depending on stage of course).

Falcon punch does about 24% while knee does about 17%.
Yeah I'd pretty much always go for the stomp if I don't think I can get the one hit kill. Stomp -> u-air seems fairly easy.
I don't reckon that Falcon Punch will kill Puff until about 50% on a regular stage. Untested claim.

 

[Ziodyne]

personally, if they don't DI down on the stomp and just pop up, I go for a double stomp to either a tech-chase or jab -> stuff

 

[strawhats]

iirc Hungrybox said Wizzrobe is the only falcon that can beat him lately, maybe Wizzrobe has some advice on the matchup? I really don't like feeling like I should be switching characters for any matchup

hmm...can't wait to see hax vs hungrybox.

 

[Wizzrobe]

hmm...can't wait to see hax vs hungrybox.

Hax fought hbox at FC and actually took a game off him, but thats because he is a good player. He still is trying to learn the MU.

 

[Aggromidget]

Hax fought hbox at FC and actually took a game off him, but thats because he is a good player. He still is trying to learn the MU.

Game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMRD4GH58Wg

My notes:
b-air REALLY good kill move at about 90
don't get thrown off stage or you die
n-air seems ineffective as combo starter. can be replaced with u-air for more percent, though he did get one good combo off n-air.
n-air maybe used to control space, but getting one hit n-air to push puff away doesn't seem very much (~5%)
camp top platform
air-dodge to get on sometimes, because regular recovery seems easy to gimp
he rarely used stomp with mixed success. At about 7.40, he get 35% quick with 2 stomps, but he does get punished with grab for doing it on shield or b-aired for misspacing it.
throw out knees on immobile puff (even shielded puff for shield stab) at kill percent worked couple times

 

[Windrose]

these are all very good tips vs puff. i play against puffs often too.

Jeapie: I find d-throw knee on puff easier than d-throw knee on peach for some reason...maybe it's just takes getting used to.

=============

isn't fully charged f-smash better punish than falcon punch on rest punishes? pretty sure i learned this somewhere in the past here in the falcon threads

 

[Wizzrobe]

Hax used my advice and went to yoshis game 1 vs hbox, was a stock ahead but lost it.

If u watch that match u can see why I think yoshi's is the best stage vs puff, those earliy kills and hax actually recovered a couple times.

Also, that set confirms that d-throw knee is safe at mad early percents too, it just has to be spaced well. ( was never sure about that)

 

[Aggromidget]

Hax used my advice and went to yoshis game 1 vs hbox, was a stock ahead but lost it.

If u watch that match u can see why I think yoshi's is the best stage vs puff, those earliy kills and hax actually recovered a couple times.

Also, that set confirms that d-throw knee is safe at mad early percents too, it just has to be spaced well. ( was never sure about that)

I know! I skipped uni in the morning to watch it live. I was crushed. Soo close.

 

[gravy]

Make sure if jiggs whiffs rests at a questionable kill percent that you walk that ***** as close to the ledge as you can before you FALCON PAWNCHDHBBAHHA

 

[CorteX]

I actually find this matchup doable now, but it takes a switch of playstyle to succeed.
I avoid using too much nair, it's not that great when playing this matchup.
Puff loses when it comes to speed, and you can jump higher than she can given the time it takes, use that to your advantage.
I really like using DJ FF knee.
Uair is a good spacing tool.
Avoid grabbing too much, she can duck under it and rest you.
You can't go wrecking jiggs with combo's so in order to win you need to outspace her.
Always keep moving and just try to land you aerials and you will succeed.
Patience plays a huge role in this matchup, and not just for Falcon.

isn't fully charged f-smash better punish than falcon punch on rest punishes? pretty sure i learned this somewhere in the past here in the falcon threads

I don't know the exact data, but simply put if you know a falcon punch isn't going to finish her off, use a charged fsmash instead because it deals more damage.

 

[Aggromidget]

I actually find this matchup doable now, but it takes a switch of playstyle to succeed.
I avoid using too much nair, it's not that great when playing this matchup.
Puff loses when it comes to speed, and you can jump higher than she can given the time it takes, use that to your advantage.
I really like using DJ FF knee.
Uair is a good spacing tool.
Avoid grabbing too much, she can duck under it and rest you.
You can't go wrecking jiggs with combo's so in order to win you need to outspace her.
Always keep moving and just try to land you aerials and you will succeed.

I like you.
The single thing that I disagree with you on is the double jump fast fall knee. Risking your double jump is dangerous