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How does Lucas deal with CCing?

Darb Vader

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
17
I seem to have a really hard time starting anything on crouching opponents until very high percents. My play group doesn't really use CCing at all, so I've developed really bad habits in this regard, and haven't been able to figure out any good ways to deal with CCing. Help a scrub out?
 
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Jamwa

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
2,045
Location
cave plantation
Lucas' grab can easily deal with these situations. Often a Psi Freeze -> grab will lead into a lot of percent depending on if you know how to follow up, and after that CCing shouldn't matter too much. Just don't become predictable.

Also certain moves can sort of negate CCing, such as Fair and Dair if I'm not mistaken.
 

Badge

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
186
There's a number of moves that don't particulary care about being cc'd:
  • Magnet, due to its double-hit nature, will usually lead into a techchase against cc-attempts or ignore them entirely if the knockback is high enough. There's also the option to hold magnet a bit before releasing to to rack up a bit of extra percents against cc'ing opponents, which gives them only a few frames to counterattack, but on the other hand gives them a chance to do so. The one thing you have to do to avoid magnet being cc'd is hit with a holding hitbox right before the release hitbox.
  • DAir as a meteor similarily can't be properly cc'd and will usually knockdown the opponent instead until high percentages. If the opponent isn't knocked into the air from DAir's hits (i.e. what you usually use the early hits for), cc'ing even does nothing at all, so you can followup with whatever you'd have anyway.
  • Grab of course doesn't care about opponents holding down. As always you shouldn't use it to the point of being predictable, but keep the option in mind as it's the surest way to get a cc'ing opponent off the ground until high percentages.
  • Theoretically footstools also ignore cc'ing and prevent it for the followup (ASDI down's still possible). Unless the opponent is mixing up between shields and cc's you'll usually be better of with DAirs, though.

Another important option against cc'ing are simply well spaced attacks. Depending on the opposing character, your spacing etc., punishing e.g. a well-spaced DJC FAir out of a cc can be very hard to impossible. You may only get a few percents out of the exchange, but if you're staying safe during it, that's a win as well.

PKF against cc'ing opponent is kind of a double edged sword. You get the percentages out of it, put you won't get enough frame advantage for any guaranteed followups unless you're auto canceling PKF and acting immediately after it. It can put opponents into an awkward position if they weren't prepared for it, but your PKF getting cc'd can also get you punished for trying to followup without expecting the cc. E.g. it's easy to escape any grab attempts from Lucas by buffering a roll out of the cc (using shield+c-stick) and then punish the grab.

So, in conclusion: Space your attacks well, know what your options will do against ccing opponents and be prepared for those situations. If you know your opponent will be trying to cc you can go for either a grab or a (possibly DJC) DAir depending on what gets the better followups/is less likely to be punished.
 

Darb Vader

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
17
Thanks a lot for the tips. I've started incorporating them more into my play (especially more and smarter magnet usage, rather than my previous over-reliance on jabs and tilts) and it's been helping quite a bit.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
As great as all these advanced tips are, the quick fix for CC'ing is grabbing. Other tools may be helpful but don't count out grabbing in a pinch.
 

TunNel

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
14
Location
Austin, Texas
Magnet fixes you're issue almost entirely, learn how to follow up combos through it.
i.e. Magnet -> WD back -> aerial
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
1,167
Location
Phoenix, AZ
As great as all these advanced tips are, the quick fix for CC'ing is grabbing. Other tools may be helpful but don't count out grabbing in a pinch.
I agree you can't count out grabbing, but mixing it in with his other options is especially important for Lucas since his grab is much slower and easier to react to than average. Even the Links' tethers have relatively quick grabs that appear near their hands before the tether grab extends. If he over uses that option, it would be really easy for an opponent to condition him into committing to the grab by making him think they will CC.
 
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