How does early vs late dair on shield work

[notpi31419]

So, from what I've been told, if I do an early short hop dair on shield, then that is a guaranteed grab afterwards (even if I shine as soon as possible afterwards), and if I do a late short hop dair on shield and then shine, I can't get grabbed (but I could get grabbed before I start the dair). I don't entirely understand the game mechanics behind this.

Aren't there 9 frames or something after every L-canceled dair, early or late? How does shield stun factor in? How come late dair followed by a shine can't be grabbed?

 

[AscendantAquila]

It may be the hits staling but I'm not too sure. Either way IIRC all of Fox's dairs can get grabbed, it's just hard to do if a Fox Dairshines frame perfectly because it requires a frame perfect grab.

For Falco this is especially true as late dair v. early dair makes a big difference on shield but with Fox it shouldn't make as big of a difference.

Someone with better frame data knowledge should be able to answer this much more in depth, but honestly you shouldn't be getting into the habit of Dairing and hitting a shield in such a way that leaves you open for a grab. Plus this question probably should have gone in the Advice/Questions thread next time.

 

[krazyzyko]

It's because of the sheild stun. Late Nair is the safer choice.

 

[notpi31419]

Thanks, but I still don't understand. I'm trying to really get the reasoning behind how this stuff works, regardless of which options are optimal.

After a late dair finishes, it leaves the opponent in more shield stun than an early dair would? That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Paging @Kadano

 

[BRUJO~]

It depends on whether or not you land while there are still hitboxes coming out and how fast the opponents characters grab is. If you land during the active frames of dair, then it is as late as you need it to be. If there is time where you are falling through their shield without hitboxes coming out before you land and after you dair, you are vulnerable during those frames and your opponent gets those extra frames to come out of shield stun. Its the difference between 9 frames of landing lag before you can shine, and 9 frames of landing lag plus the 4 frames you were falling before you landed before you can shine. The first (late dair) gives your opponent 9 frames to come out of hitstun and grab where as the second (4 frames early dair) gives them 13 frames to come out of hitstun and hrab