How do you Villagers Deal with Rushdown characters?

[Newtwarrior]

Alright, I've been playing Villager since the demo, and been practicing getting good with him/her a lot.
People in my community too say I'm a pain in the ass and a great villager, but there are two (three actually but not a rush down) that are just a pain to fight.

Little Mac and Fan Service Samus.

Little Mac (a good one) is hard to keep off , and setting up the tree can be a nightmare. I've won matches against good ones, but I can't really take full control like I do slower characters.

The real problem is Zero Suit Samus.
I've never met such a cheap, bull crap character , Stun, run Stun Run Stun Run Up B dead. Its infuriating, and while I've won matches against her, It's probably the only character that man handles me really well.

So what do you guys do? How do you deal with rush down characters?

P.S.

The other one was Rosalina, shes a pain, but slow as heck and is manageable. Though I'd like to hear how you guys deal with her too.

 

[Tylerblake478]

With Little Mac I attempt to stay in the air until I can get to the edge. Once there I try and spot dodge into F Tilt, or shield grab to get him off stage. After that it is gimp city.

 

[mmik]

I'm no expert, so sorry if this is bad advice, but... ZSS's midrange attacks are primarily horizontal, with some vertical thrown in. I'd try to play around diagonally from her, where it's harder for her to hit you. Have you tried throwing out gyroids to see how they like to respond? If you throw out a gyroid and run in behind it, you might be able to sneak in, as long as you prepare to dodge their counter-strike.

I'm not too familiar with the matchup, but I'm pretty sure trees are bad against ZSS as she can sideb through it, correct? I'd try to read her b/sideb better and learn to bait them, since they have some decent lag that can be punished.

I'd try to avoid setting up a tree against lil mac unless you actually get the spacing to do it. He can't do anything long-range to damage it, so he NEEDS to get close-range to deal with it, meaning he's either entering a danger zone, or waiting around doing nothing.

However, I would think that if you manage to get him off the stage, setting up a tree would be one of your worse options, since you can just follow him out there to finish the job. Perhaps save the tree for between stocks.

idk what do you think?

edit: oh about rosalina. I've only faced one 1v1 so far, and I kind of got wrecked. From what I've heard, the best thing to do is get rid of the star thing first, then go for rosalina. If you camp with a tree, they're GOING to launch the star at you. What I'd try to do is shorthop passed the point it will stop, and bair it right after it launches into your tree, so you knock it away from her before she gets a chance to do another attack.

I have no idea if that works though, I haven't had the matchup in a while. sounds good though, right?

 

[extremechiton]

on the lil mac front, if they dash attack or approach with jolt haymaker, you can bait that easily. plant a sapling and walk away, and water you tree from a distance. when lil mac approaches, the water will sometimes halt lil mac and the tree will grow on top of him, or if they choose jolt haymaker, the growing tree will put lil mac in hitlag and the tree will out prioritize lil mac, thus koing him. theres not much else you can do besides roll behind, ftilt, short hop nair out of shield, or camp the ledge with gyroid and fairs/bairs.

zss, i havnt met to many good zss and i am able to defeat them easily.

there are usually 2 types of rosalina players, campers and aggressors. campers let luma do all the work and dodge whenever you get close ( sounds like any old camper match up) and the aggressive rosalinas who utilize luma at all lengths. rosalina has weird hitboxes and im not entirely sure how to avoid them yet. but best bet is just to go after rosalina and not bother with luma.

 

[Ryik]

There are usually 2 types of rosalina players, campers and aggressors. campers let luma do all the work and dodge whenever you get close ( sounds like any old camper match up) and the aggressive rosalinas who utilize luma at all lengths. rosalina has weird hitboxes and im not entirely sure how to avoid them yet. but best bet is just to go after rosalina and not bother with luma.

As someone who plays both Rosalina & Luma and Villager, I would recommend going after Rosalina when Luma is near her (Let's say within her Side Special range) and Luma when it's any farther than that. A Rosalina without her Luma is put into a vulnerable position, even if it doesn't last particularly long. Meanwhile, a Luma without Rosalina backing it up is actually quite weak, and if you so much as knock Luma off a ledge, it will die instantly. If you like using the tree as a barrier, go ahead and drop the tree on Luma and then go on the offensive. If you like to aggress, ie. use the Axe on people more than the tree, stall Luma with Lloids and either go for Rosalina, or try to kill Luma.

Also, I hardly find Rosalina a camper. Letting Luma do all the work is great and all, but it opens up a window of vulnerability of both Rosalina and Luma. Perhaps against slower characters, but certainly not fast ones like Little Mac.

When going for Rosalina without Luma, beware the dash attack on the ground, the up smash in the air, the up and down airs when she's in it, and the side air when you're going air to air. I recommend a ground approach in this case. If Luma is alive, throw out a Lloid. if it lands, jump over Luma. prepare to deal with a dash attack as you land. If not, prepare to deal with Rosalina dodge spamming or retreating aerially.
When going for Rosalina and Luma together, beware her neutral special, all of the above, and being caught between the two of them with minimal distance between them.
When going for Luma, beware the normal combo, the side smash, and the up smash. Note that Luma is very easily stalled through Lloids and is very vulnerable to general launching attacks.

And finally, remember to take all advice with a grain of salt because nobody knows what everyone is going to do.

 

[Darklink401]

I feel ya with the whole aversion to Little Macs thing. It's impossible to melee them. Honestly, I often just ledge-game him. Most Little Macs don't do anything against Edgelloid, which can blow them far enough away for you to be able to get back, and use some aerials. Slingshot gets him outta the stage easy tho, with no danger of counter, as you can be far away.

 

[Mtn64]

Villager is able to hit Mac with FTilt pretty easily. Take advantage of that.
Short hop Down airs are useful too. They can usually punish macs moves without the requirement to shield.
The goal of fighting macs is to get them off stage at all costs. I've found that you can press NAir and trade hits with macs SideB. You can from there try to charge bowling ball and let it go at the right time.
Slingshot spam works too, and keep lloid up against him.
If he has any block habits, take full advantage with grabs. A good grab can change the entire battle, since they all put him in the air and possibly off ledge.

 

[Darklink401]

Villager is able to hit Mac with FTilt pretty easily. Take advantage of that.
Short hop Down airs are useful too. They can usually punish macs moves without the requirement to shield.
The goal of fighting macs is to get them off stage at all costs. I've found that you can press NAir and trade hits with macs SideB. You can from there try to charge bowling ball and let it go at the right time.
Slingshot spam works too, and keep lloid up against him.
If he has any block habits, take full advantage with grabs. A good grab can change the entire battle, since they all put him in the air and possibly off ledge.

The only problem with short hop to dair is that LM has super armor in a few of his attacks, so even if you turnip nail him, he'll send you bloody flying ;-;

 

[Mtn64]

The only problem with short hop to dair is that LM has super armor in a few of his attacks, so even if you turnip nail him, he'll send you bloody flying ;-;

In these instances if you see him charging, you can lloid air stall and then down air.
If you're not already in the air, block. I haven't found a way to reliably punish his smash attacks.

 

[Darklink401]

A good way to punish Mac is to NOT use tree, so he forgets about its possibility, then when he's at high percentage, and comes charging at you, BOOM.

 

[Mtn64]

I usually keep it up for axe punishes.
Sends him flying and gives you gimp possibility.

 

[Darklink401]

No, I mean, the tree sprouting itself it a surprise for him. Then on his second stock, you axe him ;D

 

[extremechiton]

usually if mac is rushing you down, you can water a tree and the tree will beat out dash attack, dash grab, and jolt haymaker

 

[DEHF]

The only problem with short hop to dair is that LM has super armor in a few of his attacks, so even if you turnip nail him, he'll send you bloody flying ;-;

As long as Little Mac does not use up smash you can avoid his other smash attacks. You can use immediate short hop dair to avoid his fsmash and dsmash if you drift behind him.

 

[Darklink401]

As long as Little Mac does not use up smash you can avoid his other smash attacks. You can use immediate short hop dair to avoid his fsmash and dsmash if you drift behind him.

Except he uses usmash most of the time as soon as he sees me short hop, but even when he fsmashes, he still gets super armor, so he just turns around and attacks me with a ftilt or somethin XD

 

[Antonykun]

Lloyd in general shuts down a lot of little mac's approach and he has to take so serious risk to move past the Lloyd, which Villager can capitalize off from.

 

[DEHF]

Except he uses usmash most of the time as soon as he sees me short hop, but even when he fsmashes, he still gets super armor, so he just turns around and attacks me with a ftilt or somethin XD

Are you doing immediate short hop dairs so that it autocancels? You shouldn't be getting hit if he doesn't land the fsmash because you have enough time to avoid anything he can do.

What Antonykun said about the Llyod Rocket is true as well. That combined with short hop dair shouldn't just be snuffed out with a Little Mac Smash frequently.

He shouldn't be able to react to you doing short hop dair if you do it once he's very close to you, plus you can force him to shield or throw out an attack to avoid the Llyod Rocket. When you're playing Little Mac you want to make him guess as much as possible because he can lost a stock off of less mistakes than you.

 

[Darklink401]

Are you doing immediate short hop dairs so that it autocancels? You shouldn't be getting hit if he doesn't land the fsmash because you have enough time to avoid anything he can do.

What Antonykun said about the Llyod Rocket is true as well. That combined with short hop dair shouldn't just be snuffed out with a Little Mac Smash frequently.

He shouldn't be able to react to you doing short hop dair if you do it once he's very close to you, plus you can force him to shield or throw out an attack to avoid the Llyod Rocket. When you're playing Little Mac you want to make him guess as much as possible because he can lost a stock off of less mistakes than you.

I'd rather not take my chances with super armor, and I often just fight Little Macs from the ledge, though sometimes I DO go into satge to do some aerials, and of course, gyroid and tree. It's not one of my worst matchups, but its insane how quick LM can rack up damage on Villager once he catches him XDD

 

[Antonykun]

well one thing i do against smashing Macs is to position my nairs so I'm behind the guythen run away to set up more LLoyds