smasherjet
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2015
- Messages
- 6
I just want to know the different ways you can bait your opponent into something stupid so you can punish. Examples are greatly appreciated
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How do you properly bait your opponent?
- Thread starter smasherjet
- Start date
MadeYouLook
Smash Cadet
dashdancing
mas_torque
Smash Apprentice
Shoot lasers to establish control and/or make use of the stage you're in control of in the moment. At certain spacings, reacting to certain options becomes nearly impossible, so you play a rock paper scissors of sorts. You want to force spacings (use the gun) so that you can outspace their approach and/or stuff movement or shield or jump or etc etc etc. Trying to learn baiting and other mental parts of the game is where the game gets really crazy because it strays from there being right and wrong answers. You have to play these tight scenarios as a series of soft reads (this takes knowing the mu to where you start playing the player, not the mu) to where you "know" what the other player is going to do AND you have an option that will beat them AND convert into further followups. I always aspired to be a cool aggressive falco, but since I started playing "lame" doing this has gotten waaaayyyy easier and playing became a lot less stressful. You have to play laser heavy, but be ready to identify when the other person is beating lasers. Then you start using the threat of lasers to make the other person approach. Since you've already established control in the match, you should stage which you can use to footsie and maintain good spacing that will lead to openings. Forcing jumps and knowing how to beat aerial approaches/platform movement is vital. You have to be able to switch from holding your ground to them jumping and then crossing them up/threatening from beneath to bait a dj or aerial for you to punish. Utilt, bair, uair, and shine are all really strong for this. Platform baiting is too esoteric for me to really describe at my current understanding, and this is likely rambling anyways lol
1000g2g3g4g800999
Smash Journeyman
Nothing is guaranteed to work but dashdancing, walking, running forward and then stopping SHL such that the laser doesn't come out, jumping forward then wavelanding back, or simply holding shield then exiting before the opponent can get close are all things that may make an opponent react, but not necessarily correctly. Laser->nothing also can accomplish this. The best options for baiting are the ones that are low commitment, keep your options open, allow you to respond to what the opponent, keep your distance, and rapidly change position or action. In other words, dashdancing, intricate platform movement, wavedashing and walking. Lasers, safe pressure, and positional threatening from what is most easily countered to least also work.
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OninO
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 19, 2014
- Messages
- 289
Dude, what you're asking for is for people to do a deep thinking exercise for you. You have to do it yourself. Everyone has habits, your job is to identify them as quickly, and with as little risk as possible. It's a skill (and probably the most important smash skill) to be able to probe your opponents for habits and identify them. I don't claim to be any good at this at all, it's something we can all work on.
It also depends so much on what character your opponent is, how good they are etc.
As an exercise (I'm going to try this too). Try to repeatedly set up a single spacing scenario and see if your opponent reacts in a predictable fashion. Here's one for you, land with a laser at SHFFL'd nair range from your opponent, then SHFFL the nair into them and shine, what do they do? Do they immediately attack when the laser hitstun ends? do they see your jump in and try and advance into you with a shield? Do they shield and roll away? Do they shield and stay? Do they take the hit and jab? Do they try and shield grab your aerial?
What you're doing is a basic Falco attack pattern, you're also conditioning them to a rhythm. Once you've repeated a couple of times, can you predict their response? If so, do you have a hard counter to that response ready? Importantly, can you even use your counter or are you on autopilot, have you fallen for your own rhythm?
Use the hardest counter you can think of, charged forward smash or whatever. Now what do they do when you repeat the pattern? Did they believe that you fluked the first read? If so, do it again and again until they change.
Most people only have 1-2 options for a given scenario that they're comfortable with. If you can totally control that one interaction, then you can try and set it up over and over again. From observing myself, I will often repeat the same punished action 4-5 times (teching in for example), before my brain catches up and over-rides the autopilot. If you identify that habit, and your punish game is 100%, you win the game, think about that. That's why your ability to wreck face is important because it reduces the number of situations you need to analyse, the number of times you need to go through this loop of figuring out how someone will respond.
This is nature of the game type stuff man.
Edit: Don't be daunted by the sheer number of potential options. The important thing is building a framework for how you absorb information as you play.
It also depends so much on what character your opponent is, how good they are etc.
As an exercise (I'm going to try this too). Try to repeatedly set up a single spacing scenario and see if your opponent reacts in a predictable fashion. Here's one for you, land with a laser at SHFFL'd nair range from your opponent, then SHFFL the nair into them and shine, what do they do? Do they immediately attack when the laser hitstun ends? do they see your jump in and try and advance into you with a shield? Do they shield and roll away? Do they shield and stay? Do they take the hit and jab? Do they try and shield grab your aerial?
What you're doing is a basic Falco attack pattern, you're also conditioning them to a rhythm. Once you've repeated a couple of times, can you predict their response? If so, do you have a hard counter to that response ready? Importantly, can you even use your counter or are you on autopilot, have you fallen for your own rhythm?
Use the hardest counter you can think of, charged forward smash or whatever. Now what do they do when you repeat the pattern? Did they believe that you fluked the first read? If so, do it again and again until they change.
Most people only have 1-2 options for a given scenario that they're comfortable with. If you can totally control that one interaction, then you can try and set it up over and over again. From observing myself, I will often repeat the same punished action 4-5 times (teching in for example), before my brain catches up and over-rides the autopilot. If you identify that habit, and your punish game is 100%, you win the game, think about that. That's why your ability to wreck face is important because it reduces the number of situations you need to analyse, the number of times you need to go through this loop of figuring out how someone will respond.
This is nature of the game type stuff man.
Edit: Don't be daunted by the sheer number of potential options. The important thing is building a framework for how you absorb information as you play.
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try to simplify baiting. baiting is just acting like you are going to do one thing but then you actually do something else. you know it is successful if you profit from it, and you know it failed if it didnt work out. you can be creative and there are so many ways
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Cthulhu's Underling
Smash Cadet
Step 1: Buy worms
Step 2: Wrap worms around opponent
Step 2: Wrap worms around opponent
The Coach
Smash Cadet
A question I have is how do you learn to punish your opponents mistakes? Yesterday I had a 5 min game against a fox because we kept just missing each other.
Epic563
Smash Cadet
Just keep playing the game man. Go in training mode and practice those Falco combos. Everything comes with time.
The Coach
Smash Cadet
The issue is I destroy the computer in training and in 20XX maybe it's nerves
Salmon
Smash Cadet
The CPU's are there to get destroyed and not be a challenge, I always think that my primary purpose when going into games with CPU's is to practice whatever I need to practice and not "destroy" them. That's just me though!