How do you integrate Hammer Flip into your playstyle?

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Since Sakurai decided to make the Hammer a charge move, I've been having trouble adapting to it. In Brawl, I would use Hammer a lot in the air to punish enemies but in Sm4sh is a little harder to hit because it takes longer to swing despite using an uncharged one. There is also the fact that an uncharged version is slightly weaker than the one in Brawl.

Either way, I want to use this move effectively so any tips?

I've managed to punish a couple of times with it by reading a roll or an air dodge, and boy it's one of the most satisfying feelings ever.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

This... didn't require a thread. The question could have easily been asked in the Q&A thread. Please, in the future, don't create threads for one specific question.

 

[Nickname87]

Since Sakurai decided to make the Hammer a charge move, I've been having trouble adapting to it. In Brawl, I would use Hammer a lot in the air to punish enemies but in Sm4sh is a little harder to hit because it takes longer to swing despite using an uncharged one. There is also the fact that an uncharged version is slightly weaker than the one in Brawl.

Either way, I want to use this move effectively so any tips?

I've managed to punish a couple of times with it by reading a roll or an air dodge, and boy it's one of the most satisfying feelings ever.

I use the hammer a lot actually. I mainly use it for edge guarding and when they are off stage you.always want to be in the air when you use it ( unless it is guaranteed on the ground) because it comes out much faster and you get that extra swing in case you miss the first one. but i wouldn't use it too much in one match, only as a small mix up every now and then. Also you can hit sonic out of his ball easier since you can hold it now. JOIN THE CAUSE TO DESTROY ALL SONICS!!

 

[Slonk]

Rare is the day I bother with the hammer. But when I do it's usually falling or in response to a super laggy move (eg. bowser's down B).

Also, I've successfully used it as counter bait. Y'know, for those friendly Shulks, Lucys and Macs who're so pleased that they're clever enough to press "down" and "B" at the same time- so pleased they won't stop doing it. Ever.

Anyway, since the hammer is a charge move, it's easy to bait counters- just whip out the hammer next to them, wait for the counter to end and smack them in the lag!

JOIN THE CAUSE TO DESTROY ALL SONICS!!

Ah, the day I figure the timing to wallop a fast-approaching blue ball of frustration...it will be a good day :D

 

[Kurayami]

Hammer pretty much only has utility in punishes and hard reads.

It's really good for things like punishing a shield break (you can fully charge it before the opponent recovers). It's also good for things like reading a Fox illusion onto the stage and punishing it (it does slightly more damage than any uncharged smash attack).

Counter-bait, like Slonk pointed out, is another application of the move, but I wouldn't recommend this in high-level play (you may be able to get away with it occasionally, but most good players are just going to hit you and not bother with trying to counter, which is an inherently risky proposition on their part). You can definitely get away with that in For Glory, though.

Basically, if you're 100% sure you can hit with the hammer and you aren't confident than you can initiate a combo in excess of 18% (maybe it's 19%?) instead, then you should user the hammer (uncharged, obviously); it will net you the most damage.

If your opponent is at kill percentage, though, you may want to do some testing on the knockback and launch angle of uncharged hammer versus, say, an uncharged F-smash. I'm not sure which one is the more reliable kill move, though they both certainly have KO power.

 

[Unknownkid]

In both accounts, uncharged F-smash beats the Uncharged Hammer. On Omega Battlefield using Mario as a test dummy -

Uncharged F-smash Kills 120% (middle of the stage) and 87% (on the edge)
Uncharged Hammer Kills 128% (middle of the stage) and 97% (on the edge)

F-smash send Mario horizontally to the Side Blast Zone (netting the easy kill) while Hammer send him diagonally upwards.
Interesting Note - Charging the hammer for 1.2 second, doing 23%-24% instead of 19% - your KO Potential goes from 128% to 96%.

 

[Asdioh]

I'm pretty sure fsmash wins in that regard, although hammer bash custom might be stronger.

Edit:
Also yeah the angle probably reduces much of its ko power

 

[Unknownkid]

Yeah, you are right. Charging F-smash for the same amount of time kills at 95%. I guess the reason you will charge Hammer if you want forced a reaction and punish it. For example, someone is in the air - you charged the hammer then empty jump and he/she airdodge to the ground. Punish his/her airdodge lag.

Yeah, Hammer Bash (which is pretty fast) kills at 95% and it is due to the directory. I am starting to believe that Hammer Flip might be our worst Side B compared to our other Hammer customs.

 

[Asdioh]

Although, heavy fastfallers (like dedede) are harder to ko vertically than horizontally, so hammer bash is probably weaker for that purpose in some cases. I don't know exactly how fallspeed affects vertical kos, but hammer bash is probably amazingly strong against jigglypuff