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How do you feel about the route Smash is taking with its newcomers?

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jigglover

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What I mean, is how do you feel about Sakurai skipping lots of "classic" Nintendo characters in favour of more recent ones. For example, Rosaluma in over Toad or Bowser Jr. (2002 is long enough ago imo), Greninja probably in over a generation 3 or even generation 5 representative, Wii Fit Trainer in over... well anyone, Mii Fighter in over other avatar characters, and Palutena in instead of another powerhouse of the speculation like Ridley or K. Rool (if this happens, which I think is somewhat likely). It's like Sakurai is getting money from this and advertising newer games. It's obviously untrue, but it's still what it feels like.

Does Sakurai think we've ran out of worthy classic Nintendo characters? Does he not want to include Ridley or K. Rool for some reason unbeknownst to us? Why else would he start adding so many new characters from the newer generations and games that Nintendo has to offer?

What do you guys think with all of the new characters we've been getting in this installment of smash?
 

tmrd

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I think you're over exaggerating. We DID get another avatar character as well (Villager) and there's still plenty of time for more reps- I would be very surprised if we didn't get something donkey kong since DKCR and Tropical Freeze were so popular.
We got Little Mac who is a retro character, and pac-man literally IGNORES his modern look and games in favour of the classic era. We are not getting swamped in new stuff only, we're fine.

The only thing he's really focusing on is including new series over giving any series too many reps, which I'm honestly fine with.
 

Yams

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I honestly couldn't care less who gets in and who doesn't as long as the game is fun and the characters are unique.

Also, we don't even know if Ridley or King K. Rool are in yet, so it's not fair to make assumptions.
 

jigglover

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I think you're over exaggerating. We DID get another avatar character as well (Villager) and there's still plenty of time for more reps- I would be very surprised if we didn't get something donkey kong since DKCR and Tropical Freeze were so popular.
We got Little Mac who is a retro character, and pac-man literally IGNORES his modern look and games in favour of the classic era. We are not getting swamped in new stuff only, we're fine.

The only thing he's really focusing on is including new series over giving any series too many reps, which I'm honestly fine with.
Actually, a large part of Little Mac being in could be doing to the popularity of the rebirth of his series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch-Out!!_(Wii)

Mega Man, Villager and Pac-Man are honestly the only newcomers I would say are in this game because they have long-running, popular series. However, 2 of the 3 are 3rd party, which, while it could be a reason for there inclusion, shows the ties for their series' to Nintendo and I am perfectly fine with them being in. While Villager might have a rather recent start-up to his series (2001), his first game is over 13 years ago now, and the series is still running incredibly strong. Villager is an avatar player, that's right, but he's also the perfect representative for his series. I don't know who else you could put in for Animal Crossing besides Tortimer and Isabelle, but both of them would need to stand aside for Villager first.

I would argue that 1/3 of the newcomers revealed being truly worthy of their slot, and the other 2/3 being in because of a random recent surge in their series (Little Mac, Palutena) or just because they got a new game coming out recently (Greninja, Mii Fighter, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosaluma) is swamping us.

What isn't swamping us, is what they did in Melee, where they included Roy because he was new and recent at the time, or arguably Young Link and Shiek. because 3 out of 14 newcomers isn't that bad. In fact, that's the same number of people who deserve their slot this time around. Brawl also gave us Lucario and Lucas, but that's 2 characters who were in recent games and who were probably their for advertisement, but Lucario was also in some movies in Generation 3, and Lucas was just the overall best second representative for Mother. This is also not swamping us, with the 18 new characters introduced here. One ninth of the newcomers.

This is very much swamping us, as you almost have to avoid playing as any newcomers at all if you want classic Nintendo characters. Whenever I will see this roster it will always be agitating thinking "She shouldn't be in smash", because a lot of these characters really don't deserve it, and could never be referred to as Nintendo's "all-stars".

@ Yams Yams , I know that it's not fair to make assumptions, but chances are Ridley's not in (I'm one of the silly people holding out hope that Ridley's shadow was a tease) and I can definitely see Sakurai putting Dixie Kong in before K. Rool, which I'm not completely and utterly opposed to, but I would much prefer K. Rool in terms of who deserves it more and what they represent.
 

Morbi

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I am not necessarily a fan of this "route" as it is blatantly obvious that he intends to add more of the bland and unwanted characters on the disc and save the more impressive and prominent characters that have demand for DLC. This is very similar to the methodology adopted by Call of Duty: Ghosts. I am operating under the presumption that the Gematsu leak is entirely accurate.
 
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DMurr

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We can't really make blanket statements about the roster when we don't know all of it yet.
 

jigglover

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I am not necessarily a fan of this "route" as it is blatantly obvious that he intends to add more of the bland and unwanted characters on the disc and save the more impressive and prominent characters that have demand for DLC. This is very similar to the methodology adopted by Call of Duty: Ghosts. I am operating under the presumption that the Gematsu leak is entirely accurate.
I don't think he could add that many characters for DLC, though, could he? We still need K. Rool, Dixie, Ridley, Mewtwo (I'm not a huge fan and would prefer a Gen 3 rep, though), maybe a replacement for Falco (I hope he gets cut, can't see it happening, though. Only character I want cut, because he just feels like Fox to me...) which is 5 characters. That seems to be a lot, especially with Sakurai saying he wants to cut down on the newcomers. If this is paid DLC, as well, though. "Hey guys, pay 10 more dollars for a full roster!" Especially if it's on both systems -- that would be about £80 to get both games complete in full in Britain, which is just too much IMO.

I'm fine with free DLC or like £2-3 for it, or some really good deal like they did in the 3DS Mario Golf game, but too much expensive DLC would really hurt Nintendo's reputation...

I guess, though, that if Sakurai truly wanted Wii Fit Trainer, Rosaluma, Mii Fighter etc. in, then putting them on the disc would be the way to go. If he made them DLC nobody would buy it...
 

AustarusIV

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I've already set myself for disappointment when the entire roster is leaked online. So far, I'm not impressed with the amount of newcomers that we've been getting (except for Little Mac, who I've adored before speculation), because very few of them could legitimately be called Classic Nintendo All-Stars.

I guess it's because Sakurai wanted to focus on adding newer franchise that have a promising future ahead of them like Animal Crossing, Xenoblade, and Rhythm Heaven. He already did add a lot of Nintendo All-Stars for SSBB.
 

jigglover

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I've already set myself for disappointment when the entire roster is leaked online. So far, I'm not impressed with the amount of newcomers that we've been getting (except for Little Mac, who I've adored before speculation), because very few of them could legitimately be called Classic Nintendo All-Stars.

I guess it's because Sakurai wanted to focus on adding newer franchise that have a promising future ahead of them like Animal Crossing, Xenoblade, and Rhythm Heaven. He already did add a lot of Nintendo All-Stars for SSBB.
That's the thing, though. Xenoblade only has one game, which I really hate lol. How could a one-game franchise be in smash? (Ice Climbers are retro and arcadey, so they should be allowed in).

Besides, there are so many older franchises which could also be new series. A representative from Detective Famicon Club for example, or the Prince of Sablé franchise. Animal Crossing, like I've said, is truly a franchise with a bright future and a fantastic past. Xenoblade Chronicles... well Shulk being in smash is actually going to make me go out and buy the game soon, I think, so I suppose Sakurai succeeded in a way, but it's only so I can see whether the game is truly good enough to make it's protagonist an all-star after the one game on the Wii. I've got an incline my answer will be no. 9.9

I'm also all for a good Rhythm Heaven character, and while I think he could have done better than Chorus Men, I'll definitely take it! ^_^ While Rhythm Heaven is quite a new series, it first came out in 2006. Olimar came out in 2001, leaving a shorter amount of time between Pikmin and Brawl's release (Just under 6 years I think?) than Rhythm Tengoku and SSB4's (8 years). So it's justified IMO. It was first released on the GBA, which is still 2 generations ago, and it is incredibly popular. Miis, Rosaluma etc. were only last generation.
 

~Krystal~

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I think the primary reason we're seeing some of the newer characters over the old boils down to marketability and relevancy to the current scene. K. Rool is a colorful, fun and versatile antagonist, but the fact he hasn't been in recent DK games is going to hurt him. There's just no getting around that. Even all time popular Pokemon like Charizard needed to show up in a big way for X and Y. In case you think Wii Fit Trainer was gifted a roster spot, her game sold upwards of 20 million units. Honestly, it's hard for me to argue AGAINST the newcomers we've had thus far. It's important for us to remember that at one point Nintendo was struggling to move units. Smash was made with the goal in mind to essentially reverse the fortunes of the Wii U, so obviously going with the characters that are catching fire makes the most sense.
 

Flaxr XIII

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One thing I hear people say before Smash 4 was announced was that Nintendo didn't create any memorable characters or franchises in the past generation. But then you have:

Rosalina: Debuted in Super Mario Galaxy which was a fantastic game for the Wii and it's not very often we get new Mario characters that are important to the plot. (Yeah I know Bowser Jr. was important in Sunshine but that ship has sailed and lately he's been nothing but an annoying mid-boss)

Little Mac: Made a grand reappearance in Punch Out Wii since the last game before that was all the way back in the Snes days.

Wii Fit Trainer: Yeah obviously not what comes to mind when it comes to Nintendo All-Stars but Wii Fit was a pretty big deal back in the early Wii days. And since I was one of the only five people here on these boards who's played Wii Fit, I was able to recognize her right away and it honestly was a pleasant surprise. A lot of Wii owners will most likely recognize her as well.

Miis: Debuted on Wii as player avatar and have remained avatars for the next generation of 3ds and Wii U. Not much else I can say there.

Greninja: Yeah this one's tricky since Sakurai pretty much created this character himself. Debuted on 3ds.

Villager: Was planned for Brawl and there's an Animal Crossing on every system anyways so why not?

Palutena: Again, grand reappearance of the Kid Icarus franchise on the 3ds. Sakurai pretty much brought these characters back to life in Brawl.

3rd Parties are special cases so I won't include them.

So yeah I'm not a fan of using new characters as some sort of advertisement for games and it's kinda disappointing classics aren't showing up but each Smash game seems to be a celebration of the last and current generations of Nintendo.

Let's be honest, characters like K.Rool and Krystal were nonexistent in the last generation.
 

fogbadge

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the miis got in because theyve become a staple of nintendo we probably wont get a nintendo console without them in the future and wii fit trainer got in due to the sheer success of wii fit
 

YT123

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That's the thing, though. Xenoblade only has one game, which I really hate lol.
A second Xenoblade game is coming to the Wii U in 2015, so it seems like Xenoblade has become an actual franchise. Shulk in Smash would be a pretty good way to promote the new game.
 

MooseSmuggler

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That's the thing, though. Xenoblade only has one game, which I really hate lol. How could a one-game franchise be in smash? [...] Xenoblade Chronicles... well Shulk being in smash is actually going to make me go out and buy the game soon, I think, so I suppose Sakurai succeeded in a way, but it's only so I can see whether the game is truly good enough to make it's protagonist an all-star after the one game on the Wii. I've got an incline my answer will be no. 9.9
Hey, how about before you assume that, you bother to look through the Shulk thread? You know, the one that convinced me to support him without having played the game? And as was said, there's a second game in the works.

And really, I don't get the hate for newer gen characters. Of course Sakurai is gonna support fresh new franchises, and the newest parts of old ones. Franchises grow and change, and so far, the roster is doing a good job of showing both the iconic, classic aspects and the new aspects, as well as supporting new franchises.

And might I mention, Sakurai did do fans of the classics one big favor. For the first time in over 30 years, we've got four major gaming icons in one place. I mean, nothing wrong with wanting more, but don't act like this isn't monumental.
 

Speculator

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I'm very pleased with the newcomers so far. Everyone is doing something new. All the characters have some unique selling point that nobody else offers. I can tell we're not going to see any blatant clone characters or characters that don't really feel inspired by their series, and that's great. The effort going into each one is obvious. Pessimists will say that certain characters are in just to market other games, but I highly doubt they're trying to use SSB4 to sell copies of Animal Crossing: City Folk. The truth is, the characters chosen to be newcomers have been so because they have something new to offer the game. If SSB exists to sell anything, it's copies of SSB, and they're doing that by creating a diverse roster with familiar characters.

Does he not want to include Ridley or K. Rool for some reason unbeknownst to us?
Pfft. The reasons are not unbeknownst to us.
 
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MasterOfKnees

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Here are my problems with the roster, taking into consideration that the final roster is what Gematsu gives us:

1. No heavy weight characters
2. Everyone except Greninja, Pac-Man and arguably Chorus Men are humans or have the appearance of a human
3. No villains
4. Too many obscurities, too little star power

The first point is rather obvious, there's not a single big guy, most of the guys are middle weights with a few light weights. This is a bit of a glaring flaw imo, give us some more gameplay variety.

The second one is where I think it is lacking the most. Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Mii Fighter, Palutena, Chrom and Shulk are all humans, or in Mega Man's case take on the appearance of a human. Pac-Man and Greninja are the only ones without human proportions, while the only reason I don't put Chorus Men in the human list is because of their face. This simply stinks as it makes it lack in variety, with Brawl we had Dedede, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong, Lucario, Sonic, Wolf, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and R.O.B. That's 10/18, that's real variety, 3/12 isn't.

The third one isn't especially major, but it kind of stinks only having good guys here honestly, at least throw in one villain. Melee had Bowser and Ganondorf, Brawl had Wolf and other boss characters in Dedede and Meta Knight. They have gone out of their way to include a good amount of females, now let the bad guys have some fun too.

The last point was inevitable whatever way I see it, but the roster is nowhere near Brawl's amount of star power. Now while it was inevitable that it couldn't match up to Brawl's newcomer roster as there are only so many big Nintendo characters, I think they could have done a much better job on some of the characters. If the Gematsu leak is real the only stars that match up to the majority of Brawl's are Mega Man, Pac-Man and Little Mac, and I guess Mii too, but they're more of an icon than an actual character if you ask me. Palutena, Shulk, Villager and Chrom are sort of middle-ground like Wolf, Ike and Lucario, with Greninja, Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Men being very out of the left field choices. Here's the thing, this game has 4 odd choices but will likely only have 12 newcomers, Brawl had 18 newcomers with the same amount of oddities. When you cut down on the newcomer amount you have to cut down certain aspects too, and for whatever reason they decided to include just as many oddities at the expense of including less actual all-stars, and that's not right imo. Sure it's fun having an unexpected character in the game, but it shouldn't come at the expense of a character that people are actually cheering for, aka Rosalina over Toad.

With all this in mind, who'd help kick the roster's ass up in gear? I can already see you rolling your eyes, but Ridley and/or K. Rool would do so much for this roster. They fulfill all 4 points here, they'd add so much variety to it it's not even funny. If we had at least gotten one or both of those I wouldn't have a problem, but as it is it has glaring flaws on the variety front imo. And to be honest, not many would have cried over the lack of a Rhythm Heaven rep or Wii Fit Trainer while many would have cheered for Ridley and K. Rool.
 
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mahnamahna

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Here are my problems with the roster, taking into consideration that the final roster is what Gematsu gives us:

1. No heavy weight characters
2. Everyone except Greninja, Pac-Man and arguably Chorus Men are humans or have the appearance of a human
3. No villains
4. Too many obscurities, too little star power

The first point is rather obvious, there's not a single big guy, most of the guys are middle weights with a few light weights. This is a bit of a glaring flaw imo, give us some more gameplay variety.

The second one is where I think it is lacking the most. Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Mii Fighter, Palutena, Chrom and Shulk are all humans, or in Mega Man's case take on the appearance of a human. Pac-Man and Greninja are the only ones without human proportions, while the only reason I don't put Chorus Men in the human list is because of their face. This simply stinks as it makes it lack in variety, with Brawl we had Dedede, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong, Lucario, Sonic, Wolf, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and R.O.B. That's 10/18, that's real variety, 3/12 isn't.

The third one isn't especially major, but it kind of stinks only having good guys here honestly, at least throw in one villain. Melee had Bowser and Ganondorf, Brawl had Wolf and other boss characters in Dedede and Meta Knight. They have gone out of their way to include a good amount of females, now let the bad guys have some fun too.

The last point was inevitable whatever way I see it, but the roster is nowhere near Brawl's amount of star power. Now while it was inevitable that it couldn't match up to Brawl's newcomer roster as there are only so many big Nintendo characters, I think they could have done a much better job on some of the characters. If the Gematsu leak is real the only stars that match up to the majority of Brawl's are Mega Man, Pac-Man and Little Mac, and I guess Mii too, but they're more of an icon than an actual character if you ask me. Palutena, Shulk, Villager and Chrom are sort of middle-ground like Wolf, Ike and Lucario, with Greninja, Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Men being very out of the left field choices. Here's the thing, this game has 4 odd choices but will likely only have 12 newcomers, Brawl had 18 newcomers with the same amount of oddities. When you cut down on the newcomer amount you have to cut down certain aspects too, and for whatever reason they decided to include just as many oddities at the expense of including less actual all-stars, and that's not right imo. Sure it's fun having an unexpected character in the game, but it shouldn't come at the expense of a character that people are actually cheering for, aka Rosalina over Toad.

With all this in mind, who'd help kick the roster's *** up in gear? I can already see you rolling your eyes, but Ridley and/or K. Rool would do so much for this roster. They fulfill all 4 points here, they'd add so much variety to it it's not even funny. If we had at least gotten one or both of those I wouldn't have a problem, but as it is it has glaring flaws on the variety front imo. And to be honest, not many would have cried over the lack of a Rhythm Heaven rep or Wii Fit Trainer while many would have cheered for Ridley and K. Rool.
  1. Ridley
  2. King K. Rool
  3. Mewtwo
  4. Mach Rider
  5. New Zelda villain/newcomer
  6. Takamaru
  7. Krystal
  8. Dixie Kong
  9. Captain Toad
  10. Inkling
And who actually wants plain old Toad? Captain Toad is the only way I ever see him getting in. Villager is an Nintendo All-Star at this point (Animal Crossing has been around for 13 years and is one of their most lucrative franchises).

Plus DLC could very well be the place where a good portion of hype-worthy characters go. Those 10 (in no particular order) seem to be the primarily classic characters you're looking for (Only 3 were created in the last 10 years). While it's cheap, it's probably smarter for them to be DLC than Wii Fit Trainer or Mii, etc.
 

MandoBardanJusik

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Honestly, I'm one who thinks Sami from advance wars would be a good classic addition, but with the current path it doesn't overly seem many handheld mainly game reps so far

Edit: say do we have a Sami support thread?
 
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fogbadge

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The second one is where I think it is lacking the most. Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Mii Fighter, Palutena, Chrom and Shulk are all humans, or in Mega Man's case take on the appearance of a human. Pac-Man and Greninja are the only ones without human proportions, while the only reason I don't put Chorus Men in the human list is because of their face.
paluntena is not human

and animal crossing is one of nintendo more successful franchises so i wouldnt say villager is to unknown
 

JeremySama

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Assuming the Gematsu link is true, and our final roster includes the characters given there and what we have so far, honestly I'd say we have a good set of newcomers. Getting angry over the fact that the majority are newer characters is kinda shallow, seeing as Rosalina, for example, is very well received by fans. She even has a baby now in MK. Animal Crossing is extremely popular too. Greninja is one of, if not, the most popular new gen pokemon, and is making a pretty big impact on the competitive scene. And at least Palutena and the Wii Fit Trainer are unique characters. Seeing characters with new gameplay mechanics and Non-Clone characters should honestly be the most pleasing aspect of a newcomer. Ya Can't always get what you want, so I'm thinking we should be happy with whatever the heck we get ;D
 
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Hong

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I'm waiting until the game ships before I make any calls. Right now I am not too keen on the number of newer characters, but we'lll see what's in store.
Honestly, I'm one who thinks Sami from advance wars would be a good classic addition, but with the current path it doesn't overly seem many handheld mainly game reps so far

Edit: say do we have a Sami support thread?
Here you go. ( ' ▽ ')/
Would not mind seeing her myself.
 

Speculator

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As far as 'newer' characters go - the only announced newcomer that was conceived within the last five years is Greninja. Expanding that to ten years, it's still only Greninja, Mii Fighters, Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina. There are already more classic characters announced than there are recent creations.
 
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I think the primary reason we're seeing some of the newer characters over the old boils down to marketability and relevancy to the current scene. K. Rool is a colorful, fun and versatile antagonist, but the fact he hasn't been in recent DK games is going to hurt him. There's just no getting around that. Even all time popular Pokemon like Charizard needed to show up in a big way for X and Y. In case you think Wii Fit Trainer was gifted a roster spot, her game sold upwards of 20 million units. Honestly, it's hard for me to argue AGAINST the newcomers we've had thus far. It's important for us to remember that at one point Nintendo was struggling to move units. Smash was made with the goal in mind to essentially reverse the fortunes of the Wii U, so obviously going with the characters that are catching fire makes the most sense.
I highly doubt that recency (which btw =/= relevancy) and sales were the reasons for the roster's turnout. Going by this logic, assuming a forty-seven character roster with everyone from Brawl - Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Lucas + Gematsu + Rosalina, we shouldn't have seen the following:
- Ganondorf (hasn't appeared in a Zelda game since 2006)
- Any Star Fox characters
- Jigglypuff over Mewtwo since Mewtwo is far more relevant than Jigglypuff
- Captain Falcon
- Either of the Mother Boys
- Ike (could have easily been replaced by Chrom)
- Ice Climbers
- Mr. Game & Watch
- R.O.B.

And we especially wouldn't have seen Mega Man. The same character that got thrown to the dumps for the past three and a half years and the same character whom most of it's games sold poorly. Yet he made into SSB 3DS & Wii U because he is an important part of video game history (Sakurai even called him legendary), because of massive fan demand, and because of his incredible uniqueness. Importance, popularity, and uniqueness are what got characters in this game; just like with Melee and Brawl (Pokemon is really the only exception to the rule and even then, it's not like recency is the only reason why a new Pokemon gets picked).

Also, I highly doubt Wii Fit Trainer, Mii, and Pac-Man are going to make a major sales difference. We already got all the necessary characters for pushing sales back in Brawl.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

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I'd think that the inclusion of newer characters has little to do with selling units of Smash itself. If anything, characters that people have widely expressed interest in playing as, such as Mewtwo, K. Rool, and Ridley, would be the ones to entice a few extra buyers. The newer characters are intended to sell copies of the individual games they're promoting. That's why you have links to each of their franchises' latest games on their pages on the website. Most of the characters that sell Smash itself were added by the time Brawl came out. At this point, very few people aren't going to buy Smash 4 based on character inclusions/exclusions.

My opinion on the matter? New characters aren't really my thing, so to me, this is the worst batch of newcomers by far, assuming Gematsu is real. Out of the Gematsu newcomers + Rosalina, the only ones I care about are Pac-Man, Mega Man, Villager, and Little Mac. It's not that I have some sort of hatred of anything new, of course. Dillon, Inkling, etc. are cool and I'm glad that Nintendo is still creating interesting new characters. I simply just don't care for playing as a character that's so recent that I have no fond memories of them. I also feel that the "star-studded" atmosphere that made games like Smash 64 so endearing is weakened when all of these relative nobodies get thrown into the mix. I can imagine Mario and Charizard in the same game because they're both such massive icons for their franchises and for Nintendo in general. If I try to imagine Mario and Greninja in the same game together, it just feels like some sort of unofficial, fan-designed, MUGEN-like situation.
 

MasterOfKnees

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paluntena is not human

and animal crossing is one of nintendo more successful franchises so i wouldnt say villager is to unknown
Then she's like Mega Man, looks like a human from top to toe. It's the visuals that matter in this case.

I intended to put Villager in the middle-ground requested characters but forgot him it seems. AC never had a clear representative to put in Smash, so it never really garnered that strong requests, especially after Sakurai's comments.
 
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Sheddy

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I think ssb4 has been going in the right direction myself I mean between the great stages, the fun looking items, the new characters so far, and custom moves I really like what they are doing so far
 

Speculator

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The newer characters are intended to sell copies of the individual games they're promoting. That's why you have links to each of their franchises' latest games on their pages on the website.
Zero Suit Samus' page links to Metroid: Other M. Little Mac's links to the Punch-Out Wii game. I can guarantee to you that they are no longer trying to shift copies of those games. Even other games linked like Kid Icarus Uprising and Ocarina of Time 3D had their marketing stopped years ago. The links are there for exactly the reason it says; for people unfamiliar about the characters to learn more about the series they're from. I don't doubt some reveals like Diddy Kong and Toon Link were timed to cross-promote other releases, but that really has very little to do with the roster itself.

Using a Q4 2014 game to market games from 2012 makes absolutely no sense. Palutena isn't being included to ship copies of a two-year old game. The closest SSB gets to 'marketing' is Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters, and we all know that's because Intelligent Systems and Game Freak have a heavy hand in the usage of their characters - but even then, we're still seeing characters like Ike and Lucario stay when a cold-blooded marketing mindset says they should get the boot.
 

~Krystal~

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I highly doubt that recency (which btw =/= relevancy) and sales were the reasons for the roster's turnout. Going by this logic, assuming a forty-seven character roster with everyone from Brawl - Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Lucas + Gematsu + Rosalina, we shouldn't have seen the following:
- Ganondorf (hasn't appeared in a Zelda game since 2006)
- Any Star Fox characters
- Jigglypuff over Mewtwo since Mewtwo is far more relevant than Jigglypuff
- Captain Falcon
- Either of the Mother Boys
- Ike (could have easily been replaced by Chrom)
- Ice Climbers
- Mr. Game & Watch
- R.O.B.
Of course being recent doesn't entail being relevant, but at the same time, Smash isn't a museum of critically important prehistoric artifacts, albeit there is R.O.B. It's mostly supposed to be a celebration of Nintendo's successes, and in that vein, it's important to acknowledge the latest ones as well as the older ones in order to appeal to the most fans possible.

Those characters, save Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, and R.O.B. have enormous fan followings and/or are going to make appearances in an upcoming game. Ganondorf is slated to appear in the Hyrule Warriors spinoff and for all we know could be in the official Wii U game, since we're making assumptions about incomplete products here. StarFox also just had a new game announced. Ike, along with a slew of other popular FE characters, was DLC in Awakening. Even if all of those characters had no reason outside of their unique playstyles to be in the latest sequel, that's still a smaller sample size, especially out of a projected roster of 47 characters.

And we especially wouldn't have seen Mega Man. The same character that got thrown to the dumps for the past three and a half years and the same character whom most of it's games sold poorly. Yet he made into SSB 3DS & Wii U because he is an important part of video game history (Sakurai even called him legendary), because of massive fan demand, and because of his incredible uniqueness. Importance, popularity, and uniqueness are what got characters in this game; just like with Melee and Brawl (Pokemon is really the only exception to the rule and even then, it's not like recency is the only reason why a new Pokemon gets picked).
Mega Man hasn't been totally inactive either. I really enjoyed playing his latest games, 9 and 10 on VC. The last one was released in 2010, which isn't eons ago. He could of been butchered and changed completely in the official sequels, but Capcom stayed true to his original form. Besides the fact they greenlighted him for this appearance in the first place when they could've asked for a king's ransom (instead they were cool about it), they collaborated with the development team on his design. So, the abuse stories are certainly hyperbole from what I can see. I think you took the words out of my mouth in saying he has massive fan demand, though, which is what I'm trying to say is a factor.

Also, I highly doubt Wii Fit Trainer, Mii, and Pac-Man are going to make a major sales difference. We already got all the necessary characters for pushing sales back in Brawl.
If you don't think the likes of Wii Fit Trainer and Pacman are going to have a heavy impact on sales, I can understand. There are lots of favorites in this game because it's a mix of so many different franchises, however, those are still two highly visible figures in the video game industry. They can only serve to bolster sales, and there's always room for improvement there. I realize this is a drab, unromanticized vantage point, but it's a business at the end of the day. It's not the worst thing in the world to have as many people as possible playing the game. All it can do is benefit the casual and competitive scenes, which is good for everyone.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Miis definitely have a lot of casual appeal. In contrast, WFT will not be selling major amounts of copies of Smash.
 

Sheddy

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idk what you are talking about pac man not affecting sales I know from personal experience when my friends who did not own a wii u yet as soon as pac man was announced they bought a wii u and pre ordered the game because he wants to play as the 4 retro characters in one game
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I think the problem with how the newcomers are being handled is that too many people are assuming that every character that's been revealed so far is an automatic starter. Being present on the box art doesn't necessarily equal the starter status, as Rosalina was present on Mario Kart 8's box art, but you still had to unlock her first.
 

BluePikmin11

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I think the problem with how the newcomers are being handled is that too many people are assuming that every character that's been revealed so far is an automatic starter. Being present on the box art doesn't necessarily equal the starter status, as Rosalina was present on Mario Kart 8's box art, but you still had to unlock her first.
PKMN Trainer, Pit, Wario, Peach, Mario, Link were all starter and they were on the cover of Brawl.
 

shinhed-echi

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Meh, as long as we get as many main characters as possible (aka, unrepresented franchises debuting in Smash Bros. for the first time), I'm cool.

This is why perhaps Greninja was my least favorite reveal. 2nd is Rosalina, but in the end... I liked Mario Galaxy so much, that I don't really mind (and it could've been much worse IMO. At least it's not another Mario.)
 

jigglover

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I think the problem with how the newcomers are being handled is that too many people are assuming that every character that's been revealed so far is an automatic starter. Being present on the box art doesn't necessarily equal the starter status, as Rosalina was present on Mario Kart 8's box art, but you still had to unlock her first.
However, characters in a game like Mario Kart are a bit pointless in reality, since differentiating each character in terms of playstyle is easy. They also don't really have "representatives" in Mario Kart.

Smash Bros. Is a lot different honestly.
 

Ryan.

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I'm actually happy about the roster so far. All the newcomers look really interesting and fun to play as.
 

FlareHabanero

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I think people are kind of over exaggerating the situation at hand.

Also, it's proving my point that thinking with an incredibly strict mentality is not a healthy method at looking at things. Because being broad will help see a glimmering light no matter what situation happens, which in my personal situation is why I'm still having a sense of enthusiasm. The main factor being that the newcomers have a better design to them then previous batches of newcomers, which probably has to do with the influences from the Tekken/Soul Calibur team. There are still stinkers though, like Mii Fighters and Chrom, but that doesn't feel any different from past installments which also had it's fair share of stinkers too.
 

FlareHabanero

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Slightly off topic, but who were these specific past characters you considered to be "stinkers" and why?
Pokemon Trainer for being a very poorly handled concept.
Toon Link for being a waste of time.
Arguably many of the newcomers in Brawl, actually, due to questionable design choices. Like Sonic having zero killing moves, Pit being way too dependent on Palutena's Arrow, Ike being way too slow and predictable, Meta Knight breaking the game in half, and R.O.B. being too prone to camping.
The six clones introduced in Melee, except for arguably Falco.
Zelda, Bowser, and Mewtwo due to design flaws.
 

Arcadenik

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I am actually okay with this. It is interesting to see who are the new faces of 21st century Nintendo. I remember Sakurai saying that it was harder to come up with more character-driven franchises... something about six years gap between Pokemon, Pikmin, and Brawl... so I'm pleased to see new franchises that debuted in the 21st century get characters... Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Wii Sports, and most likely Rhythm Heaven and Xenoblade Chronicles. This just goes to prove that we are not running out of Nintendo characters.

That said, I still want some characters from the 1980s and 1990s.... Toad, Duck Hunt Dog, Dixie Kong, Takamaru, Simon Belmont, Muddy Mole, Lip, Infantry Units (Famicom Wars), and Mike Jones.
 
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