How do you deal with super fast characters?

[Alaya]

I've been having a tough time going against the super fast characters like sonic, shiek, greninja, little mac, falcon etc. It always comes down to the same things: whenever I want to approach because of our positioning they run away and refuse to fight then run back in and punish from a whole screen away if i ever dare to try and take a swing at them, if i shield them and try to punish even with a jab it seems like they just can instantly back off and be a screen away without losing anything for their predictability, if I try to attack them when they run in the hit me faster than and with more priority into a combo where even if i spam my counter for some reason I still keep getting hit before I can even pull it out, if I'm in the air i have to go for the ledge to recover because their so fast that they can run along the ground and juggle me easily even if i try to air dodge otherwise, anytime I roll away I get dash grabbed but they get to roll around at a million miles per hour like crackheads without being catchable any time they are at high percent, they tend to be too light to ever be killed by pivot ftilts so I have to land a smash to finish them and that's an exercise in extreme frustration as they rack up 160% before finally dying because their finger slipped and they ran out of jumps of stage while juggling me.

There must be something I'm missing about these characters, they just piss me off with how much they have to work with and how few options I have to deal with them. I play Lucina and often it seems like my only shot is to wait for the 15th dash attack in a row and try to counter and hope they don't decide from half a screen away to do a sliding grab instead because thats how early I have to counter if I want it to come out at all.

How do you deal with these kinds of high speed, low commitment, hit in the run pain in the ass characters?

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Sonic's the only one I really have a hard time dealing with he's small and fast, usually through out a lot of light attacks in the air to build up damage

 

[Cowhunter]

If one of your major problems really is against dash attacks, try shield grabbing more often. It's one of the fastest things you can do OoS, and it is pretty much a guarenteed punish against most dash attacks. Albeit that's not that strong, for stronger options
you have to look at a character by character basis. If is the big issue, not only is shield grabbing a great option, but try using more forward airs as Lucina, it covers a lot of space and Lil' Mac can't challenge aerial defenses very well.
If is your issue, remember that his grab range is puny, so it's not much to worry about when he approaches. But his dash attack and aerials are definitely problems. Shield grabbing still works quite well, but the best thing is to remember that Falcon has no disjointed hit boxes, but as Lucina that's all you have. So try to get better at spacing tilts and some aerials, and as you may already know pivot-ftilt is great here.
If is your opponent, meanwhile he is the epitome of fast, remember that you far out range him. Learning very good timing can be key against Sonic, but he dies fairly early and isn't the toughest to gimp, so he isn't too much to worry about. Also, because he is so fast, his dashes are fairly committal, so be prepared to space tilts similar to against Captain Falcon, but this time your aerials are definitely better than his.
and can be pretty big problems because not only do they have quick dashes, but they also have projectiles to force you to approach. Their tilts and aerials also rival yours in terms of effectiveness, making it an even more difficult matchup. But have no fear, there are weaknesses! Yet again your sword is your best friend, as it keeps you safe in situations where other characters would trade, or worse. Defensive tilts and aerials are less useful here than in the other matchups, but pressure, aerials, and shield grabs are all extremely important here. Both of these characters often have to commit fairly heavily to KO, so watch for that, shield, and punish! Never forget that Dolphin Slash (upB) is a fairly good punish move.

tl;dr
Shield grab, learn2space&time, never forget upB.

P.S.
For anyone that doesn't know what shield grabbing is, it's when you are holding shield and while still holding shield you press A and grab without having to wait for the shield drop animation to complete. It's faster than nearly everything you can do OoS(out of shield) and is especially powerful with Lucina and Marth.

 

[Rysir]

Be really patient and time your attacks properly, being aggressive does not really work unless you abuse weakpoints in what they are trying to do. Personally whenever I tried to be aggressive I end up look like Im trying to swat flies so defensive reactions always worked better for me.

 

[Raijinken]

I swap off of my main (Robin) and on to someone with some armor or less endlag (especially on wifi. Robin's lag is bad enough, I refuse to put up with it against some Sheik or Sonic in a scenario that augments my character's weaknesses without impacting theirs). Or someone with a counter.

 

[SevenYearItch]

If one of your major problems really is against dash attacks, try shield grabbing more often. It's one of the fastest things you can do OoS, and it is pretty much a guarenteed punish against most dash attacks. Albeit that's not that strong, for stronger options
you have to look at a character by character basis. If is the big issue, not only is shield grabbing a great option, but try using more forward airs as Lucina, it covers a lot of space and Lil' Mac can't challenge aerial defenses very well.
If is your issue, remember that his grab range is puny, so it's not much to worry about when he approaches. But his dash attack and aerials are definitely problems. Shield grabbing still works quite well, but the best thing is to remember that Falcon has no disjointed hit boxes, but as Lucina that's all you have. So try to get better at spacing tilts and some aerials, and as you may already know pivot-ftilt is great here.
If is your opponent, meanwhile he is the epitome of fast, remember that you far out range him. Learning very good timing can be key against Sonic, but he dies fairly early and isn't the toughest to gimp, so he isn't too much to worry about. Also, because he is so fast, his dashes are fairly committal, so be prepared to space tilts similar to against Captain Falcon, but this time your aerials are definitely better than his.
and can be pretty big problems because not only do they have quick dashes, but they also have projectiles to force you to approach. Their tilts and aerials also rival yours in terms of effectiveness, making it an even more difficult matchup. But have no fear, there are weaknesses! Yet again your sword is your best friend, as it keeps you safe in situations where other characters would trade, or worse. Defensive tilts and aerials are less useful here than in the other matchups, but pressure, aerials, and shield grabs are all extremely important here. Both of these characters often have to commit fairly heavily to KO, so watch for that, shield, and punish! Never forget that Dolphin Slash (upB) is a fairly good punish move.

tl;dr
Shield grab, learn2space&time, never forget upB.

P.S.
For anyone that doesn't know what shield grabbing is, it's when you are holding shield and while still holding shield you press A and grab without having to wait for the shield drop animation to complete. It's faster than nearly everything you can do OoS(out of shield) and is especially powerful with Lucina and Marth.

Oh boyyy. Falcon's STANDING grab range is puny, but my dash grab range? I can grab you from eons away. Jab game with Falcon is actually unreal as well as I've shown some people in Falcon dittos and elsewhere. You nailed it with range though. Basically don't let me as a Falcon get right up in your face or I'm going to push your teeth into your throat. Anywhere else? I'm pretty much done for

 

[Cowhunter]

Oh boyyy. Falcon's STANDING grab range is puny, but my dash grab range? I can grab you from eons away. Jab game with Falcon is actually unreal as well as I've shown some people in Falcon dittos and elsewhere. You nailed it with range though. Basically don't let me as a Falcon get right up in your face or I'm going to push your teeth into your throat. Anywhere else? I'm pretty much done for

Hah "eons away", you need to try pivot grabbing with Dedede, that is some Major Range. In all seriousness though, Lucina's grab range is pretty great, beating Captain's dash grab standing and dashing. So he could always respond with a grab of his own, although that is pretty risky.

 

[Alaya]

If one of your major problems really is against dash attacks, try shield grabbing more often. It's one of the fastest things you can do OoS, and it is pretty much a guarenteed punish against most dash attacks. Albeit that's not that strong, for stronger options
you have to look at a character by character basis. If is the big issue, not only is shield grabbing a great option, but try using more forward airs as Lucina, it covers a lot of space and Lil' Mac can't challenge aerial defenses very well.
If is your issue, remember that his grab range is puny, so it's not much to worry about when he approaches. But his dash attack and aerials are definitely problems. Shield grabbing still works quite well, but the best thing is to remember that Falcon has no disjointed hit boxes, but as Lucina that's all you have. So try to get better at spacing tilts and some aerials, and as you may already know pivot-ftilt is great here.
If is your opponent, meanwhile he is the epitome of fast, remember that you far out range him. Learning very good timing can be key against Sonic, but he dies fairly early and isn't the toughest to gimp, so he isn't too much to worry about. Also, because he is so fast, his dashes are fairly committal, so be prepared to space tilts similar to against Captain Falcon, but this time your aerials are definitely better than his.
and can be pretty big problems because not only do they have quick dashes, but they also have projectiles to force you to approach. Their tilts and aerials also rival yours in terms of effectiveness, making it an even more difficult matchup. But have no fear, there are weaknesses! Yet again your sword is your best friend, as it keeps you safe in situations where other characters would trade, or worse. Defensive tilts and aerials are less useful here than in the other matchups, but pressure, aerials, and shield grabs are all extremely important here. Both of these characters often have to commit fairly heavily to KO, so watch for that, shield, and punish! Never forget that Dolphin Slash (upB) is a fairly good punish move.

tl;dr
Shield grab, learn2space&time, never forget upB.

P.S.
For anyone that doesn't know what shield grabbing is, it's when you are holding shield and while still holding shield you press A and grab without having to wait for the shield drop animation to complete. It's faster than nearly everything you can do OoS(out of shield) and is especially powerful with Lucina and Marth.

Shield grab is what I always try against little mac since when I approach he can roll back and forth at light speed with no delay and can super armor smash me even when I have the angle just right to hit him, so that even if i hit him and he doesn't hit me I end up landing right on him and ofc incoming little mac jab spam or one-two for 30%. However 4/5 times LM dash attacks me I shield and try to grab but his hit pushes me back too far and if I shield and try to dash grab he rolls back 50 feet and we're back at square 1. Trying to perfect shield is asking to get murdered against that speed, I don't have that kind if reaction time.

I don't always have as much trouble with these kind of characters, but occasionally I get a guy who makes like 15 actions per second dashing past me rolling twice through me and landing a combo while I'm still animating my 'punish' on the first crossup roll who proceeds to follow me around midair and make me a punching bag no matter what I try to do. It could be that I'm just facing really good players when that happens, but I don't normally have a problem with losing to a better player - it's just that in these matchups I don't feel 'outplayed' so much as 'well they know how to play that character so there's nothing I can do' because of the raw speed, lack of lag, and physical effort they are willing to put into each match.

Honestly I'm tempted to just SD out of the match if it starts and the enemy makes two fox trots, a pivot tilt, 3 short hop fast fall back airs, and two throw into air combos within the first 30 seconds. I'm just not willing to smack my fingers on my controls that hard and fast every match even if my character could actually take advantage of it.

 

[SevenYearItch]

Hah "eons away", you need to try pivot grabbing with Dedede, that is some Major Range. In all seriousness though, Lucina's grab range is pretty great, beating Captain's dash grab standing and dashing. So he could always respond with a grab of his own, although that is pretty risky.

D3 trumps Falcon for sure. And I never said Lucina doesn't have it, but people often don't credit the dash grab range Cap has and end up getting caught in it. Some of my best moments were catching someone off guard with a dash grab near the edge and getting a kill off the combo because they figured they were far enough away. Would I try and just trade grabs with Lucina? Hell no. But its definitely worth throwing out

 

[Cowhunter]

Shield grab is what I always try against little mac since when I approach he can roll back and forth at light speed with no delay and can super armor smash me even when I have the angle just right to hit him, so that even if i hit him and he doesn't hit me I end up landing right on him and ofc incoming little mac jab spam or one-two for 30%. However 4/5 times LM dash attacks me I shield and try to grab but his hit pushes me back too far and if I shield and try to dash grab he rolls back 50 feet and we're back at square 1. Trying to perfect shield is asking to get murdered against that speed, I don't have that kind if reaction time.

I don't always have as much trouble with these kind of characters, but occasionally I get a guy who makes like 15 actions per second dashing past me rolling twice through me and landing a combo while I'm still animating my 'punish' on the first crossup roll who proceeds to follow me around midair and make me a punching bag no matter what I try to do. It could be that I'm just facing really good players when that happens, but I don't normally have a problem with losing to a better player - it's just that in these matchups I don't feel 'outplayed' so much as 'well they know how to play that character so there's nothing I can do' because of the raw speed, lack of lag, and physical effort they are willing to put into each match.

Honestly I'm tempted to just SD out of the match if it starts and the enemy makes two fox trots, a pivot tilt, 3 short hop fast fall back airs, and two throw into air combos within the first 30 seconds. I'm just not willing to smack my fingers on my controls that hard and fast every match even if my character could actually take advantage of it.

When shield grabbing it is important to press A just while you are still in blockstun, also it is even more important not to drop the shield as you would in a dash grab. If your opponent is a melee only character like little mac or sonic, remember that you can wait for them to come to you, especially if they're that aggressive. You work better at medium range than they do, but they work better and in-your-face range by a long shot.

D3 trumps Falcon for sure. And I never said Lucina doesn't have it, but people often don't credit the dash grab range Cap has and end up getting caught in it. Some of my best moments were catching someone off guard with a dash grab near the edge and getting a kill off the combo because they figured they were far enough away. Would I try and just trade grabs with Lucina? Hell no. But its definitely worth throwing out

Yeah, I was just makin a joke for the most part. People definitely can underestimate Captain's grab, I know I have. I've also overestimated it too, which sometimes is worse >.>

 

[Freduardo]

Hitting them more then they hit me and killing them before they kill me.

That goes for super slow characters too. And medium speed characters.

It's the best way to deal with anyone.

If only they'd stop fighting back.