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How do you beat a camping Samus on FD?

Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
8,377
Location
Long Beach,California
Samus players on FD drive me crazy.They barrage me with missles and I take heavy damage,them why I finally get some damage in,Tipper...then..they come back again,even sometimes at 200% damage.>.>

Can anyone give me some advice of fighting a Samus on FD,they drive me insane.
 

UMBC Super Smasher

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
1,077
Location
University of Maryland Baltimore County
I have had to really work on this matchup myself, and have had relative success lately. I started playing SSBM in October of '06, and I can say that marth vs samus really shows how skilled my marth is at the time. The reason is in order to beat a good samus, marth needs to be highly technical and have good mindgames. You need to be able to L-cancel aerials, wavedash in and out of shields to grabs and attacks, and space fairs incredibly well (among many skills).

Facts you need to know: just about all of marth's tilts and aerials destroy missiles. Be careful when walking toward samus and using tilts however, because samus can catch you in the lag and come close enough to hit you. If samus is missile happy, you should know that if you time the fair right, you can not only destroy the missile but also hit samus and likely start up a fair (Ken?) combo. As long as you hit that samus off the stage you're good. Read the rest and you'll see why.

You want to keep the pressure on the samus and not let her camp. The way you do this is with a barrage of well-spaced fairs (this is why l-cancelling is crucial). Do empty short hops near her, waiting for her to get close enough for a fair or even fsmash. Try to grab to fthrow to fsmash. Do it as fast as possible so samus can't DI in time. You want tippers! If samus gets too close for comfort, do a short hopped dair to get her off of you. It works well on floaty characters like samus/peach.

When edge guarding, jump off the stage facing away, but don't do a bair unless you're sure u can hit samus. What you really want to do is wait for her to use the grappling beam and time a dtilt to poke her out. Now she has lost her grapple and must use up B. Here you want to fsmash her recovery. This is where marth will get that needed advantage over samus. Edgeguarding her is extremely important since she can live forever and keep racking up damage on you if you edgeguard poorly. I should also note that if the samus is too high to make her use her recovery moves, don't let her air dodge back fake you out. As a marth player, when you see the samus in range you want to fsmash (same goes for peach). The problem is the fsmash has just enough lag to allow the samus to escape. Use Utilts. Most likely the samus will think you're going to fsmash, because so many marths do, and she'll still air dodge. NOW use the fsmash. It's mindgames, son!

Things NOT to do against samus:
1) Rush in for a grab. Samus has a great sidestep, and in my experience I can't play samus like I would a fox/falco. If you get a grab, do fthrow to fsmash afap.
2) Do an aerial right in front or behind her (samus dsmash! uggggh). SPACE!!1
3) Same with #2, but not realize that samus has like the best crouch cancelling in the game and is a very heavy character. She'll trade hits with you, and believe me she'll win!
4) Sit back and wait for her to charge her beam cannon, or better yet, get an EXTENDER!!!!
5) Recover low/high enough for a missile to hit you. In my experience, it's best to use that jump early to get extra height (if already high). Just don't use the jump if it puts you in range for her missiles.
6) Remember that samus can spike you by running off stage and doing a nair, but that can be stopped if you recovery low enough. Realize whether the samus player you're playing knows to do this, and if she does... recovery lower. This is tricky and takes practice.
7) Shielding missiles/beam instead of destroying them with fairs and/or sidestepping. Remember that samus can time her jump cancelled missile + beam such that it will hit you right after your sidestep.
8) Hanging on the ledge when samus still has her grapple. Only do this if you think samus can't make it back with her up + B and has already lost the grapple.

Things you WANT to do against samus:
1) Keep in that slashy sound fair range and take down that shield over time. It pressures the samus player because her shield is getting eaten away, and if a fair hits then you can combo her nicely.
2) Learn to sidestep her beam cannon instead of shield it. It takes like half your shield out if you shield it, and it's really not hard to sidestep. Practice sidestepping all of samus's projectiles and you'll be amazed how great you dodge.
3) Use dtilts to get her off the stage, particularly when she's at higher percentages.
4) Occasionally approach samus using a nair, especially if she's in the air.
5) Did I mention keep samus in the air? Uairs, fairs, bairs, they all work well on her. Just beware of her strong nair when spacing.

I'm sure I missed some things, but off the top of my head, that should beat a lot of samus players. I'll have to play Oro or Jasona soon to get the ultimate test though. All in all, as I stated earlier, beating a good samus takes practice and technical skill with marth, plus removing some bad habits like fsmashing when the samus does an air dodge. I mean really, that samus is just in range for a tipper... I just really want to fsmash.... but I'm telling you, get over your desires and just utilt. Even if you end up hitting her with just an utilt, either you'll kill her if she's at around ~150%, or you'll knock her way up in the air, which is not good for samus.

OK I'M DONE!!! .... for now. Oh yeah, DISCLAIMER: I suck and therefore any of my advise should be taken with extreme caution. Good night, SWF!
 

UMBC Super Smasher

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
1,077
Location
University of Maryland Baltimore County
As an added bonus, I'll post the youtube links that helped me in this matchup.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cv2q8PDCMDY

It's an old vid, but Ken does a lot of things right (and wrong, actually). I also have some MLG vids from 06 that I got off the hub that helped a lot.

Things I forgot:

- Dash attack against samus, particularly at mid-high percentages, works well to get her in the air and possibly start combos. It is good if she is about to land, because marth's dash attack goes underneath samus's missile.
- Uthrow works to kill samus starting at 200% (yes, Ken made some mistakes - one of them was grabbing samus at over 200% and not doing an uthrow).
- Nair works well on a side-step-happy samus.
- Utilt kills samus starting around late 140's to 150+% depending on DI.

Besides Ken grabbing the ledge at ~2:00 instead of going for the fsmash or maybe dtilt, and not doing a uthrow, and fsmashing samus several times when tilts would have not gotten him punished.... Ken played well.

Edit: oh yeah, other good marth vs samus vids on youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rDTdA_E6lHg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CPZvyNDKNw4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=61dWSY165vg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=isa6gpjS0PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ErIcBbSCfBQ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HLYZFCP0ex8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WbyupV3hr9k

I hope this helps.
 

Schweppes

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
608
Location
1080 West Addison
I didn't read all of UMBC's stuff, but I figure I might as well post my two cents mirite? Basically, there's a couple things that are very very helpful against Samus specifically (beyond 'basic' Marth things like spacing, Fair combos, etc.).

1) Dtilt. It essentially destroys Samus' ground approach and forces her to come through the air. Once she's above you Marth just has a great time comboing/juggling. :D

2) PATIENCE. I can't tell you how many times a Samus gets back onto the stage against Marth because the Marth got impatient and did something stupid. If you have to resort to jumping up and Fairing (not tipped) them away, do it. Just keep her the **** off the stage. If you see her airdodge near the edge, she's obviously going to grapple. Running off the stage and countering will often enough catch her off guard - just be careful not to fall too far. >_>

3) Grabs grabs grabs grabs and more grabs. Like the Dtilt, grabs help counter CCing and ultimatrey get Samus in the air, ripe for comboing. It also means your right on top of her; she has no room to plan out an approach or spam missiles.

It's really quite a fun match-up once you know how to handle it.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
SHFFL nairs to approach a missile-happy Samus. They eat through missiles exceedingly well.
 

D20

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
1,602
Location
Pittsburgh
SHFFL nairs to approach a missile-happy Samus. They eat through missiles exceedingly well.
I dunno about this... yes, the nair will beat a missile, but you have to time it very well. The nair doesn't have the sweeping arc of the fair, and so, you have less room for error. I'm going to suggest simply walking forward with your jab or SHFFLing fairs to close the distance. The Samus I play against double missile cancels like no other, so if I make one mistake, I'm going to take at least two missiles to the face (and maybe a beam on top of that).
 
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