how do u beat a marth that....

[samdaballer]

OK, so me and my friend were playing smash and he mains falco, i handed his a** to him then he switched to shiek then fox and i still owned him. Then he went to marth, he would forward smash then nair me or wait till i hit the ground and f smash me again. He also just jumps around short hop nairing everywhere. I have read the matchup guides for sheik vs. marth, but i was wondering how i would handle this type of player. Thanks and i always appreciate the input.

 

[Zankoku]

Needles eat constant approaching with SH nairs. So does shieldgrabbing. In fact, if Marth gets grabbed by Sheik, he's in deep ****.

 

[einthesuperdog]

tech roll away from his f-smash, unless you think you can fake him out by teching to the opposite side and then punish him when he smashes at nothing. You can try needling him to counter all his shffled Nairs. Try not to be above him because he has too much coverage with the up tilt and F-smash. Practice DIing out of his combos. Use your grabs, the dash attack canceled grab has longer range than his standing grab I think. Just keep the pressure on him and don't let him dictate the pace of the battle. Hope this helps

 

[hhliveson]

needle camp like crazy while you have the space. once he gets close you can either attack or roll away to gain more space. its really all about making marth miss attacks so do what you can to achieve this. once you have, you should be free to grab him or do whatever else you wish.

 

[REDRAGON]

What stages are good for needle camping???
Not Bf, Ys, FoD, even Dl64 and a few others are not great for camping.....

 

[Zankoku]

DL64 is pretty poor for Marth, anyway.

You can needlecamp on any decently sized stage if the Marth sucks at going on the offensive.

 

[Randizzle]

having both sheik and marth as my mains, I actually have a lot of fun playing either side of the matchup. the matchup is heavily in sheik's favor, but a decent marth can easily destroy the sheik if the sheik doesn't play smart. Sheik can combo the hell out of the marth, but marth can pull off some pretty nasty combos as well.

needlecamping works to a certain extent. yes, it will destroy him if he approaches primarily with sh nairs. but a smarter marth has several means of approaches and will switch it up as soon as he notices something isn't working. The key is not to be predictable in your approaches and to utilize sheik's speed to react and capitalize on mistakes.

Learn to fake out your opponent, draw out wiffed fsmashes, but if you do get hit, always DI up and towards the stage. learn to DI really really well. You'll be surprised how well you can survive against forward smashes with good DI.

 

[Det]

I don't find it heavily in Sheik's favor at all. This is the only matchup I have trouble with. If the Marth has excellent spacing, and knows full well what Sheik is capable of, this can be quite the intense game, going either way. Marth's can keep Sheik at bay quite easily, although once Sheik does get close it turns to her favor.

Needles are of vital importance, however don't use it too much, or he'll learn to avoid it. I suggest not attacking with Forward airs as an approach while he's in the air, and instead try Bair's instead. The longer reach can be more useful. That's only a minor tip, but... besides that you really need the Marth to make a mistake, so then you can tear him apart. There are no safe approaches against Marth, especially if they have mastered their spacing, with wavedashes.

That's just my view of this matchup, not too helpful, but... it's hard to explain how to fight a Marth, when he's a pretty flexible character, and the exact situation can change everything...

 

[thebluedeath1000]

This matchup is definitely in sheiks favor, anyone can tell you that Det.

It becomes quite apparently of the gap when the sheik knows how to gimp marth, marth's recovery isn't very variable as without his second jump, hes screwed.

And since needles throw away his recovery, hes really got to gimp sheik in return..and as marths know, shes one of the hardest characters to gimp for the fact her up-b turns her invincible for quite some time.

 

[Randizzle]

but she loves eating ken combos =)

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Sheik+Spike=Dead? maybe..

Sheik can come back from ken combos at low to mid%.

Shes not that hard to keep in f-air chains but shes greased up or something because she does slip away any other time.

 

[Randizzle]

fair->fsmash, fair->more fairs, fair->nair... plenty of combo options on sheik.
oh wait, this is the sheik board XD

but on that note, pay attention to the marth's momentum if he hits you and where you go when a fair hits to avoid getting comboed or spiked.

needles kill marth's recovery if you take away the momentum from his second jump, and sometimes his up+b.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Yeah, and her combo options on marth are ten times greater.

Randizzle, I don't know about you but I'd never needle a marth's Up-b specificly like that, its just adding on damage and probably not affecting him..unless he panics easy and will up-b again, forcing him to go over the ledge, you should just focus on edgeguarding.

 

[Randizzle]

i meant forward+b. but up+b is still good for needling if you know he's going to make it back. however, at that point you usually have other options as well.

not going to argue that sheik combo game on marth is nastier.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

When marth grabs you..you may be in trouble..when sheik grabs you, you are knee deep in trouble..

Even marth's mightly tech chasing game isn't all that great considering the way sheik follows up grabs.

Its just not fun for marth..even with proper spacing and good mindgames, hes on his toes the entire time.

 

[Det]

I never said it wasn't in Sheik's favor. I simply stated that I didn't think it was HEAVILY in Sheik's favor.

 

[Xeorogue]

I never said it wasn't in Sheik's favor. I simply stated that I didn't think it was HEAVILY in Sheik's favor.

Zing! :bandit:

 

[HoshiPuri]

When you get comboed, DI away. Try keeping a distance shooting needles. Shield to shuffle to shield grab.

All basically what everyone else said.

 

[kiwiii]

grab marth. a lot.
get grabs by forcing people to shield with needles and aerials
wd out of shield into grabs when marth fsmashes ur shield
shieldgrab if his spacing sucks and he misses l-cancels
and you can combo to grab too, but getting that initial grab is the big thing
once they start worrying about getting grabbed, you wait for stuff like sidestep, roll, jump out of shield, and you punish accordingly

you should always dthrow whenever you get a grab, and depending on how they DI, you do different things

if he DIs behind u (or not at all, which is basically the same) at a low percent (~25%), u can pop him up with a usmash into a fair or tilt into a combo. u can also sh nair
if he DIs behind u at a higher percent, just turn around and sh/lh slap, depending on how high he is in the air. you can still try to usmash, but if they're fast, you'll miss.
if he DIs in front at a low percent (~25%), you can actually chaingrab him until around 30%. when his damage gets higher, then just do dash attack --> sh fair.
now for high percents, like.. 100+%, get your kill.
if they DI behind, sh backwards --> uair or fair. avoid bair, it's weak and won't do ****. if they DI front, then sh fair. uair can also be good, especially if they're not expecting it and they're DIing up for the fair.

sheik has so many options, it's ********.

needles are good.

watch out for his fsmash range.

when youre recovering, or get thrown off the stage, don't use your jump right away. always sweetspot the ledge from below.

crouch cancel his fairs with a dtilt, and combo into a slap.

**** marth when he lands from an aerial. abuse his lag. grab him!

rolling behind him is actually really good. do it when he's rushing at you, then grab or slap the back of his head. whatever.

u can also edgeguard marth. bair/nair off ledge is pretty awesome. bair his face between his fair swipes, and trade off your nair for his upb whenever he's about to come up. needles **** up his momentum as he recovers. cc his upb into a dtilt or dsmash if he tends to miss the sweetspot and goes slightly above.

if you're too aggressive and you don't fully know what you're doing, you'll probably get *****. this match-up may be in sheik's favor, but marth will win if you're not smart about your game.

 

[wexs883198215]

Wow...I have the same problem.....except my marth opponent is always on the offensive....so it is hard to needle camp. So, with needle camping, should i be throwing horizontal or diagonal ones?