How do I improve my play?

[_Snover_]

Hey guys! I'm a new player and I'm a Ness main!
I've been having some trouble getting my technique down in real matches, so I have some questions:

• When am I supposed to wavedash?
• What button combination is best to get DJC'd aerials to come out the fastest?
• What should I be initiating with?
• How should I keep my general playstyle?

Sorry for all the nooby questions, and thanks in advance!
Freeze

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

You sound like you are at a very early stage of advanced play. My best suggestion to you is to keep playing and go to local tournaments and practice against all kinds of people. You'll improve simply from that exposure.

Some general tips though: fair is your safe move, dair is your general combo starter, and people have been successful with DjC using various input methods

 

[vrud]

Hey simna how do you DjC? Mostly, the way i do it is by rolling my thumb over y>x>a. I know that hbox does it by doing up on control stick>y>z.

For the improvement, I suggest when you are alone to just practice movement and moving smoother. You'll notice that you can punish further and get to places faster or that you couldn't get to before.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I do it by taking my disgustingly fat hands and putting my thumb on the controller so it covers Y, A, and (optional B) at the same time and then I take advantage of the nice feature on the GC controller where the buttons sit at different heights on the controller and I press YYA.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

lol j/k my hands arent that fat but I do use YYA

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

Hi freeze, I'm not the best ness player. neither the most experimented, but I love playing ness and I felt the same way like you... I learn some of my techniques of videos, actually, I see lots of videos to get other's techniques and to learn some usual mistakes. I do DJC with the up stick, and the y»z combination, but I think that the up stick»x»a combination has more potential, because of the control and speed. The question about wavedash was in my head for to much time, I also didn't knew when to wavedash, I actually questioned the utility of it applied to ness. Now I understand more about wavedash utilities in ness game, the wavedash of ness covers a good range to gain space between your opponent and you, but also to do reads, like punish rolls, or roll techs, to move and confound your opponent and you'll finde some others in the daily practicing. I hope to be helpful, and like I said, I'm not an expert, my advises can be not the best, but keep asking until you feel comfortable with your knowledge.

 

[_Snover_]

Thanks, everyone!
I was also wondering if I should be worrying about short-hopping/SHFFLING as Ness. It's really hard to pull off (I keep jumping all the way when I try to actually use it) and with DJC, I don't really see the point.

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

Thanks, everyone!
I was also wondering if I should be worrying about short-hopping/SHFFLING as Ness. It's really hard to pull off (I keep jumping all the way when I try to actually use it) and with DJC, I don't really see the point.

Here's the thing, the three "techniques" have their own time and situation to apply, because of their differences, for example, I use short hop when I need more range in my attacks, also when I need to create space with some fairs, I use SHFFLING for the dair, to start combos, if you only short hop dair, you wont be able to connect the next hit, because of the landing lag, if you DJC... you can't dair well with DJC!. You'll find when to use them depending on the situation. (just my opinion)

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

And Short hop only needs a bit of practice, try both ways: button or stick, I use both of them, when I need more distance in the jump, I use the button, when I need it quickly (the short hop), I use the stick.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

go to training mode as Fox and practice shorthops with Fox until you can do them every time

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

go to training mode as Fox and practice shorthops with Fox until you can do them every time

Oh yeah!, if you can short hop with fox, you can short hop with every character!

 

[Ganreizu]

Oh yeah!, if you can short hop with fox, you can short hop with every character!

I'm sure this isn't sarcasm or anything but i don't think practicing something on one character is anywhere near as good as practicing it on the character you actually care about. Ness takes 5 frames to be airborne vs fox' 4 frames and as ness knowing this window of time is really pretty important to be familiar with if you're trying to use djc for movement or attacks so the difference between fox' jump or even say, bowsers jump would probably mess you up a little bit.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Ganreizu no.....learning to shorthop with fox will let you shorthop with anyone. Its actually better than practicing shorthops on Ness. Shorthop and DjC are unrelated.

 

[Ganreizu]

Ganreizu no.....learning to shorthop with fox will let you shorthop with anyone. Its actually better than practicing shorthops on Ness.

I still don't think it's relevant experience. How to technically do it, sure, but otherwise why would i want fox sense information if i play ness? I know it's a super simple thing learning to shorthop and all though; i probably shouldn't have posted. >.>

Shorthop and DjC are unrelated.

I don't really agree. :/ I understand they're different things though. Being familiar with the feel of a jump should affect one's ability to djc well. From what i know, and it's probably a minor/irrelevant/straight up wrong point, if you're using fullhop instead of shorthop, your djcs end up slower because you dedicate more time than you need to jump+jump unless you djc with tap jump. No?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

You can be amazing at all sorts of DjC but no good at shorthopping. Shorthopping is done by releasing the jump button during your jumpsquat animation and DjC(as in the kind that's low and fast) is done by cancelling your jump with a midair jump then cancelling your midair jump with an attack.
You need to release the jump button much sooner for a shorthop than for a DjC seeing as how you need to release jump while you are still on the ground for SH and the midair jump in DjC doesnt need to be pressed until you are in the air.

The point of SH with Fox is good in many ways. Since his is the fastest(tied) and there is no way to perform a SH too fast learning it with Fox will allow you to shorthop consistently with every character. On top of that rapid consistent shorthops with Fox will often help a person up their play speed(a common thing that players still learning SH need to work on).

If I were teaching SH to a person I would have them go Fox and tell them to keep doing it until they can do it (practically) every time. Then I would tell them to incorporate fast falling to do them even more. Then I would tell them to incorporate lateral movement. After that practice they would go back to Ness, take only a small period to readjust to Ness' fall speed and then be in better control than before.

Don't say you shouldnt have posted. You should post.

 

[dan smith]

"When am I supposed to wavedash?"
wavedash can be used defensively and offensively. if somebody comes towards you with an attack you can wavedash back and then take advantage of them. try wavedashing back and then using the forward smash. if somebody attacks you and you use your shield you will often find yourself in a situation where they are a little bit too far away from you for you to retaliate. this is a situation where you might want to wavedash forward to close the gap. wavedashing is a tool that is best used for spacing. wavelanding is also very inportant

"What button combination is best to get DJC'd aerials to come out the fastest?"
probably using z. i can't actually remember what i use unless i'm holding a controller.

"What should I be initiating with?"
the fair is one of ness best and safest options. the dash attack can be a good lead but it is very abuseable if you don't space it correctly. when in doubt, fair.

"How should I keep my general playstyle?"
i play ness hyper defensively. ness is very easy to kill both by gimping and simply with low amounts of damage. i spend most of my matches simply not getting hit while slowly building up damage on my opponent. i think ness has a lot of good options as far as annoying, disrupting, and surprising.