How do I even edgeguard this character?

[Zigludo]

I've been watching ipk's stream and I just can't figure it out, lol. it seems like the only time I see a Lucario get successfully edgeguarded, it's when a Fox shine spikes him... twice LMAO

Long story short there's a Lucario player in my area that I just HAVE to beat. I've never taken him out in bracket or in moneymatches but I always feel like I'm just almost there, about to break through. So I need every advantage I can get lol

 

[Thor]

As Ganondorf? Tipman at the edge, tipman offstage out of his up+B (I'd try floating right by the ledge and DJ uair) are things I'd suggest messing around with. If you can do DJ dair from the ledge to onstage (that is, on ledge, drop -> DJ -> dair and the dair comes out), grabbing ledge and doing that isn't an edgeguard but should KO him around 100% on most stages if I'm not mistaken - and the same principle works with fair on small stages. Be wary that he can aura cancel to avoid endlag of his recovery, but forcing him to burn aura is usually not a bad thing to do since it hurts his neutral and KO options.

Alternatively fullhop offstage, bait down+B, and DJ uair or bair as appropriate. Down+b is silly (in a good way, I think it's important to Lucario) but it DOES have endlag, so hitting him out of the end of that will really ruin his day. Fun fact - Lucario can go under Dreamland with an aura charge by using down+b -> dair cancel (slows fallspeed, maintains horizontal momentum) -> DJ -> up+B (requires decent steering), so it's no wonder gimping him is a struggle. But hit him out over and over and his recovery gets worse as he loses elements of it (down+B, jump, aura charges), so just intercepting him is good when you can.

Also I'm pretty sure Lucario bops Ganondorf hard because he actually should win in neutral (as far as I know) and Lucario basically has the best punish game of any character (outside of maybe counting Jigg's rest). Do you play other characters besides Ganondorf? This may be a good person to use a secondary against...

 

[Zigludo]

Float tipman is definitely something I need to start implementing. I should also study the way Lucario upB and downB work with regards to aura charges, too, because I didn't realize he was expending aura to help his recovery. Thanks for those tips!

As for the matchup... I know it's terrible, lol. But I'm stubborn and I don't think that beating this particular Lucario with Ganon is impossible.

 

[Thor]

Float tipman is definitely something I need to start implementing. I should also study the way Lucario upB and downB work with regards to aura charges, too, because I didn't realize he was expending aura to help his recovery. Thanks for those tips!

As for the matchup... I know it's terrible, lol. But I'm stubborn and I don't think that beating this particular Lucario with Ganon is impossible.

He's not always expanding aura to help recovery, BUT...

- If he uses an attack out of down+B and seems to have a lot of momentum, he used an aura charge.

- If he uses an attack or airdodges after up+b, he used an aura charge.

The first one is frequent when recovering high [if you ever see a Lucario all of a sudden go flying fast while using nair, that would be a down+B -> nair which uses an aura charge], and if you ever see him up+b and airdodge, that is using an aura charge while using up+B and then airdodging for that last little extra distance.

In 3.02 it was always optimal to use aura when the airdodge was the difference between dying and not dying, due to how aura worked [you start every stock with 1 charge and 1 charge only], but in 3.5 it's different, so someone might have aura and save it for next stock.

Also unlike 3.02, if you hit him, down+B doesn't refresh (which was the case in 3.02). So that means your job is a little easier than it used to be.

 

[Risky]

Being a Lucario main it's far easier for me to recognize when he uses an aura, but you can listen for it too. If you see him Down-B or Up-B he'll make a noise for the followup attack. His hands not glowing is a good visual cue too. Most Lucario players can't sweetspot from every angle (me included) and it gets exponentially harder to do so when below the ledge, so onstage Tipmans or Dair at the ledge is pretty good. Avoid committing too hard to your option though since he can angle it up and float to the edge similar to Fox.

 

[Leirkov]

Lucario recovers high: If he just uses up-b, smack it with uair. It's fast and safe. If he cancels, watch to see if he uses an aerial (nair/fair usually) or airdodge. You can punish dodge with uair/fair/bair. If Lucario uses an aerial he'll try to cover himself, so this is more dependent on a well spaced position to convert into a punish on your end. I might recommend a fadeaway nair to try and catch Lucario. If Lucario didn't use his down-b, he might cancel into that and be able to shield fairly fast or get out of the situation.

Lucario recovers straight at you: Fair, fadeaway nair. Jab. Ftilt. Anything.

Lucario recovering from below: He's going to have a much harder time getting back. Tipped uair is one of your best bets. Dair works. If Lucario cancels up-b he will most likely airdodge. Ftilt and dtilt are barely able to catch Lucario out of recovering.