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How do I deal with Shields ?

Tainic

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sup

So from what I've seen Lucas' Neutral relies heavily on Zair/Side B Spacing, but it feels to me that these 2 options are sooo damn nailed by Shields, how do I deal with those ? Lucas isn't exactly the kind of character you can grab easily with and all, any tricks to win the neutral as him despite the existence of R button ?
 

A Polar Bear

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Find all 7 of the mice on the Highway and tell them to go back to their mom, then mom will give you a reward for it. Best way to deal with sh... oh. You mean Sm4sh.

Well, Lucas' inability to exert good shield pressure is really one of his bigger flaws in this game, mainly because his aerials aren't autocancellable on landing anymore, so you can't dance around shield like in Brawl. The most surefire way is to bait it out with empty hops or run ups and grab. Even that's pretty risky too, but its honestly the best way to "beat" shields.
 

EarthBoundEnigma

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Zair on shield should also be able to land a follow-up grab if it was a short hop approaching zair. If they went for an attack, rope snake should still outrange most hitboxes and still land the grab. Patience will be important. Go for punishment and spacing, instead of outright spam and rushdown.
 

Swagmaster

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I would say keep hitting. If your spacing correctly, the PK fires will just keep pressuring the shield until they come out. That's when you use the zairs to set up combos and fires to push them away. Otherwise, I would try down smash in shield. It should push them back, and if they come out of shield for a punish too early, they'll get hit with the slightly more greatly ranged third hit. Not completely sure if it's a good idea, but I would just keep PK firing.
 

ForteX

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I think his nair can poke shields. :/
It can, but that's risky business. If your opponent angles their shield like they should, it won't poke and you'll be punished. Hell, if the shield full health, I don't think it'll poke unless your opponent doesn't expect the attack to last so long and just stops holding shield to punish too early. General rule of thumb is not to rely on your opponent not expecting something basic, though.

I would say keep hitting. If your spacing correctly, the PK fires will just keep pressuring the shield until they come out. That's when you use the zairs to set up combos and fires to push them away. Otherwise, I would try down smash in shield. It should push them back, and if they come out of shield for a punish too early, they'll get hit with the slightly more greatly ranged third hit. Not completely sure if it's a good idea, but I would just keep PK firing.
I wouldn't dsmash on shields, it's more of a ledge covering option than a shield punishing move - its even one of the worst dsmashes for punishing rolls, but exceptional at punishing spotdodge. Overall you're on the right track with PK Fire.

Lucas' PK Fire is fast, has a huge hitbox, and has two distinct hits. Opponents unprepared in the matchup won't know about that second hit, and will drop shield on the explosion thinking it's cosmetic, but like I said, "General rule of thumb is not to rely on your opponent not expecting something basic, though." Lucas is a character very much about spacing, so in an ideal situation, your opponent can shield all they want and you won't be caught with your pants down - you're not the one who is being forced to approach (at least not approach-approach). Use general mixups and mindgames if you need to put damage on or go in for that kill; reversed grabs, empty hops, dashing at them to bait the shield, etc.

Most importantly of all, never be predictable ever. If you've been dashing at your opponent's shield for a grab, or empty hopping into a grab, if they're not an idiot they're going to catch on, and you don't play against idiots, right? When you think they've caught on, dash into a nair or turn that empty hop into a zair, as far as I remember it has quite a lenient autocancel, and does decent knockback. If you're feeling really confident, turn that empty hop into a magnet, it does way more knockback and thus rewards the read better.
 
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EdreesesPieces

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Im surprised nobody has mentioned full hop bair on shield. It delivers enough stun and pushes them away so you can do it pretty safely. Just space it well. It's not exactly "pressure" meaning you can't frame trap them into anything out of it, but you can condition them into realizing even if they are shielding you can try to hit them without repercussion. It's not like fair or nair where you can easily be punished for trying it on shield.

Bair is a ridiculous spacing tool, and that includes shields. You can even punish marth's fairs with it if you space correctly. Don't go for the spike, just go for the pressure.
 
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JosePollo

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Im surprised nobody has meBair is a ridiculous spacing tool, and that includes shields. You can even punish marth's fairs with it if you space correctly. Don't go for the spike, just go for the pressure.
Agreed. Like fair, it makes for an amazing retreating option, especially because of how long the hitboxes stay out.

In terms of pressuring shield, PK Fire is obvious, but don't forget zair. It's safe as hell because you can use it from a very long distance, and if you fade back with it you can keep the hitbox at around the same space, covering the area with a long-lasting hitbox the opponent can simply run into. Just don't zair out of an air dodge since it will incurr a 22-frame landing lag.

On taller characters, AC dair can be used to dance around their shield, especially if you land behind them. At high percentages you can get dair spike to up smash if they fail to tech.
 
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Lunacywastaken

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Good shield pressure options include:
- Z-air into f-tilt/grab/f-smash etc.
- PK Fire
- Full-hop d-air (AC)
- SH b-air
- Cross-up n-air
- Sweetened f-air
- Bait a shield and pivot grab
 
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