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How do I approach Ganon

MarthZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
233
Location
Valparaiso, Indiana
NNID
NESman1995
I've been wondering for a long time, how in the world do I approach ganon without getting kicked in the face. I've tried using dash attack but more often than not I get punished. I've watched a guy use fairs but it never works out for me.
 

AirFair

Marth tho
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Houston, Texas
Ganon does not have good appraoches. I think playing reactively in the very beginning can help you out.

Most of the time, when I play any ganon, the one thing they all do is fullhop when you dash in. When fullhop happens, DON"T STAND STILL

You have to move away or shield the oncoming aerial, since he is GOING to aerial most of the time.

You outrange him, and you will usually be able to keep him from touching you

just play really really really really safe and you will win. Don't run into jab or grab.
 

MarthZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
233
Location
Valparaiso, Indiana
NNID
NESman1995
I agree that ganon has bad approaches, but I don't agree with Marth out ranging him. Hell no dude. Thanks for the help though, it should'nt be too hard for me to adapt because I play a defensive Marth (atleast use to).
 

Delta Chae

The Observer
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
194
Location
Indiana
I agree that ganon has bad approaches, but I don't agree with Marth out ranging him. Hell no dude. Thanks for the help though, it should'nt be too hard for me to adapt because I play a defensive Marth (atleast use to).
Marth has a disjointed hitbox, Ganondorf does not. It's that simple. Space your moves properly and boom, you outrange him. Some of Ganondorf's attacks might reach further overall than Marth's sword but they also overlap with his hurtboxes meaning that a sufficiently strong attack will break through them. No matter how many times you hit Marth's sword, unless your attack also collides with his body you won't so much as scratch him.
 

MurphyPrime

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
238
The Ganon is very likely not going to approach cause ganon can only forward air to approach. Dash dancing will help to avoid the aerials and set you up to punish (cause ganon is pretty slow). What are Ganons doing to you that stop your approach?
 

AirFair

Marth tho
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Houston, Texas
ganon can also down b to approach, because it can cross your shield. He also has platforms.

Usually, just be careful if he's above you.
 

MarthZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
233
Location
Valparaiso, Indiana
NNID
NESman1995
Marth has a disjointed hitbox, Ganondorf does not. It's that simple. Space your moves properly and boom, you outrange him. Some of Ganondorf's attacks might reach further overall than Marth's sword but they also overlap with his hurtboxes meaning that a sufficiently strong attack will break through them. No matter how many times you hit Marth's sword, unless your attack also collides with his body you won't so much as scratch him.
The Ganon is very likely not going to approach cause ganon can only forward air to approach. Dash dancing will help to avoid the aerials and set you up to punish (cause ganon is pretty slow). What are Ganons doing to you that stop your approach?
ganon can also down b to approach, because it can cross your shield. He also has platforms.

Usually, just be careful if he's above you.
Thanks guys I'll try to do what you suggested and I'll see how it turns out. I'll also try going Fox or Falco if my Marth doesn't get even close to beating him.
 

MurphyPrime

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 7, 2015
Messages
238
Marth vs. Ganon is a surprisingly close match up by general consensus (not sure how much I agree, but it isn't an easy one). So lots of Marths have difficulty as well.
 

SwiftOfDaSouth

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
238
Location
The South (Fairhope, Alabama)
What professor AirFair said is very true, but I would also work on aggressive dashdancing and sheildstop aerials. It might just be the Falcon main in me saying this, but these two things are two of my major tools when fighting Ganon with Marth. Admittedly, I don't have any accomplished, veteran Ganons in my area, but I'm pretty sure Marth shoots slugs that kill every pig it hits, no matter how big. What I mean by this is that Marth has tools that, if used accurately enough, can beat any Ganon simply due to disjoints and combo opportunities. Let me break this down.

What I mean by "aggressive dashdancing" is not necessarily an offensive option, but in fact a veiled defensive one. If you watch high level Marths like Mew2King and especially PPMD, their Marth's dashdances are terrifying, even to the spectators like me watching from home. The sheer suspense and ambiguity of their movement, reinforced by their devastating, soul-crushingly good punish game is enough to make the opposition break down like a witness in an Ace Attorney game. Since Marth can outrange Ganon with good spacing and smart movement (and the Ganon has to know this), "aggressive" dashdancing that is threatening and scary is going to force the Ganon to lash out and do something out of both the monotony of your dash dance and, at the same time, the threat they're feeling from it. Use Marth's tools to psychologically wear down on your opponent's patience and force his hand through false threats with a teeth-chatteringly scary DD.

Sheildstop aerials are an outstanding mixup in this MU, and one that few marths I see other than PPU using well. The shield stop can be utilized by itself or in junction with your awesome dashdance that's making the player next to you question why he ever picked up a GameCube controller. Suddenly breaking your dashdance with a sudden dash towards -> shield can cause some people to freak out and instantly fair your shield or something, or they'll just run away. In any case, you've used Marth's superior options to gain an advantageous position against a character that relies almost entirely on the opponent messing up to win. If they have a mini spaz attack and do something like Fair or run up and try to grab you, your sheildstop has just turned into a sheildstop aerial. Fair, Dair, even retreating Nair OOS can all work here, depending on what's running at you. Pick your favorite. If they DD away because they're absolutely scared ****less by Marth and his huge sword, congratulations, you've just established better stage position. Beware for the inevitable Wizard's Foot to follow or some kind of waveland in -> Ganon stuff.
WD OOS is also an essential tech that is useful for every mu, not just Ganon. Sheildstop -> WD OOS is probably the followup you want if they ran away from you.

Hope this helped, everyone else has given great advice so far so make sure to study that a bunch too. If you have any questions, hit me up again. Good luck!
 
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