hitbox gift please

[the muted smasher]

I want to know if pichu can nair fox, s shield landing the disjoint and have frame advantage with a spacing outside of fox's shine oos option, so grab beats all attacks oos

 

[Comet7]

i can't make a gif of it, but i tested this a few minutes ago in 20xx and it is possible.

even if nair is stale pichu will barely grab fox out of the air if he jumps out of shine.

 

[the muted smasher]

Perfect, I think pichu can wall fox out in the neutral with raw offense and beats sheik by a hair in the neutral, we just have sooo much 1 frame windows that we partly have to react before applying.

Just if we had real corner pressure or a way to punish a full jump over us better than an upair

 

[DerfMidWest]

Pichu loses to both of those characters pretty ****ing hard in neutral...
fox can just bair you and pichu doesn't really have an answer to sheik's fair walls if done correctly or to needle camping.
Being safe against shine oos is a very very minor part of the neutral game against fox, especially considering fox literally never has to shield against pichu.

 

[the muted smasher]

I firmly believe the best thing any pichu can do is to nair better and I think it's more than fair to say no one nairs in terms of spacing, timing, and mix-ups even close to how far it can be pushed for Pichu i think I could push myself to get 80% of those perfect spacings and timing at very least and if we can force a shield and kill all options when we tap it it just becomes follow the escape and to keep squeezing

Also how his nair game "can" play out is clearly his biggest thing he has over pikachu

 

[Comet7]

this is reminding me of the shield pressure discussion in 20GX. :> i don't think fox completely bodies us on the neutral anymore, but i think once we have to make a 50/50 choice about what to do with nair when we commit to it is when it goes downhill. i'll test some stuff against some foxes this week and review my thoughts again.

 

[DerfMidWest]

fox can actually just shine pichu's nair before it hits him.
jus sayin'

 

[the muted smasher]

20xx is just staring at their controller so You can powershield punish shines but then they adapt and quit shining and it comes down to who's better at kick their leg

 

[Comet7]

or we can always steal the first port.

 

[the muted smasher]

Whenever I play ics and most the time as pichu (doesn't matter vs like samus) I steal 1st port so I'm above that meta and I always offer first strike before we watch side-b ditto for the higher number.

So far everyone has lost that to me xD then I got first stage ban

 

[Comet7]

for a real reply about shine intercepting stuff...

i think that could be worked around by being smarter with nair and DD'ing close to them to make people anxious to do something or pass the threshold of plausible reaction time. the only problem i have with shine in situations like you seem to be getting at is CC shine. pichu would probably tech the shine because of the "missed" l cancel, but would be at a bit of a frame disadvantage.

 

[DerfMidWest]

for a real reply about shine intercepting stuff...

i think that could be worked around by being smarter with nair and DD'ing close to them to make people anxious to do something or pass the threshold of plausible reaction time. the only problem i have with shine in situations like you seem to be getting at is CC shine. pichu would probably tech the shine because of the "missed" l cancel, but would be at a bit of a frame disadvantage.

I'm not saying that shining pichu out of everything he has is optimal, just that fox can actually shine pichu out of his approaches if he doesn't commit to anything else.
I just wanted to illustrate the point.
This has happened to me in tournament plenty of times.
In general, Pichu just has a lot of trouble actually getting in on fox if they play the mu well.
That matchup is not fun if the fox is not terribad.

 

[the muted smasher]

If fox refuses to approach yeah its terrible