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Help with wolf. Please

JrdnS

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
543
Location
Jax.Florida
hey guys my friend mains wolf and lately ive been having a hard time with him. i would really appreciate it if you all could provide for me somethings i should do and not do when playing wolf or basically a way to counter him.
thanks everyone.
 

ckm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
402
Well, first you need to deal with his blaster. There are a few ways you can approach when hes spamming it:

I. Closing the distance

1) walk forward and shield/spotdodge each time he shoots, making your way towards him slowly.
2) shorthop/airdodge towards him, using the airdodge to avoid the blaster shots
3) fly (jump and keep jumping) towards him
4) glide towards him
5) Mach Tornado/Drill rush

Using one of these methods, you should be able to close the distance. Unfortunately, while you were making your way over to him, he has likely been planning on how to hit you once you get within his range. Keep in mind wolf's range is pretty large because of his rediculous Fsmash. So.... if you find yourself walking or shorthopping towards him, be ready for an attack when you are at Fsmash range. Usually he will stop spamming when you are in this range, as he doesnt want to get hit while hes still got his gun out.

If you used the glide or normal flying method, you might want to land closer to him. Dont land unless you do so in a less vulnerable way... for example, dont just land right in front of him and stand there. If you were gliding, you can glide attack, but be prepared for him to expect it. When using the glide attack, hit with just the tip of the sword so the shield knockback combined with your spacing will be enough to avoid his shieldgrab. Remember you can attack, dodge or shield immediately after the glide attack, so act according to what you expect him to do. If you were flying, you have lots of options. you can swipe at him with a hovering dair (dont fast fall it when youre too low or you will land by him and get punished), you can start up a mach tornado and test his shield, or youcould just land with an airdodge or spotdodge to avoid his retaliation.

As far as option number 5 goes (i know alot of people will call me stupid for saying this without reading this whole post), just because his blaster will cancel the moves, doesnt mean you cant go over/around them. you can start up a drill rush in midair, and angle it down as it gets closer to him... hitting him with the tip. This will work fairly often, as long as hes not expecting it. Mach tornado works similarly... try to start it closer to him though, since it moves more slowly and will be easier for him to see it coming.

One last thing to keep in mind when approaching wolf in the air: a good wolf will try to intercept you. He might do this with his forward b or an arial attack. The forward b has only one trajectory, so you can avoid this if he likes to use it in this situation. Just fly a littl lower, closer to his projectiles. If you are gliding, you can hit him with the glide attack when he tries an arial, and if you are flying, just be quicker and land a fair or dair on him. Nair might work here too.

II. Dealing with his smashes

Once youve closed the distance, you arent out of the woods yet. You will need to deal with his fast smashes and good tilts. Fortunately, most of his moves are fairly easy to punish if you know what to expect. If your timing is not stellar or if you dont have alot of experience fighting wolf (especially if its on wifi), you might have trouble spotdodging his smashes. Honestly, blocking most of them is not a bad option because wolf's throws arent very good. Make sure you use his tilts, because even though your dsmash is super fast, wolfs smashes are pretty quick too... you dont want to trade with him all the time. Shieldgrab the crap outta him, and set up combos with your dthrow and fthrow. His Usmash isnt that great, so you can use dairs without too much concern if you know how to time them.

III. Finishing the job

Honestly, this is where MK really shines against Wolf, and where Wolf's weaknesses really show. His return is fairly limited, and even a good Wolf player will be forced to edgesnap on his return fairly often. Make sure you time your edgehogging to just grab the ledge right when hes about to use his return. When he is close enough and at the right angle to land ON the stage rather than grab the edge, start up a tornado right before he comes back and hell fly right into it, giving you free damage and possibly setting up another attack. Gimp him if you can, and be aggressive. Any time hes off the stage, you have a good chance to kill him, no matter what his percent is... just work on your off the stage tactics.

hope that helps!
 

Jarabe 93

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
85
Location
New Jersey
Get him off the stage in any way possible, then start gimping with F-air/D-air. His recovery is pretty stiff, so once you reach a good distance away, hog the edge and watch him fall to his death.
 

JrdnS

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
543
Location
Jax.Florida
thank you both. i really appreciate it. ckm im doing some of the stuff that you said here but im also not doing some of the stuff. Your methods of approaching are really good. i only used like 3 of these methods. im definitely going to try out the rest. also im really glad you put in the section dealing with his smashes. that is one of my weaknesses against my friends wolf. i'll see it coming but i still fall for it. and your idea of using his tornado when wolf is recovering sounds like a great idea. i'll definitely use what youve said and apply it to my meta knight. again, thanks a lot!
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
5) Mach Tornado/Drill rush
Umm...yeah...wolfs blaster cancels these, so dont try arrpoaching that way.

But overall, good guide ckm. Covered all the big points. Focus your assault mostly from the air; wolfs ground game is much better than his air game.
 

Ornj

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
320
Location
Gemini
this sounds stupid, but play on a NONplatform stage. Becuase of brawls physics, wolf can just camp under platforms and it is extremely hard to approach.
 

ckm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
402
Umm...yeah...wolfs blaster cancels these, so dont try arrpoaching that way.

But overall, good guide ckm. Covered all the big points. Focus your assault mostly from the air; wolfs ground game is much better than his air game.
if you had read the whole post, you would have seen this:

As far as option number 5 goes (i know alot of people will call me stupid for saying this without reading this whole post), just because his blaster will cancel the moves, doesnt mean you cant go over/around them. you can start up a drill rush in midair, and angle it down as it gets closer to him... hitting him with the tip. This will work fairly often, as long as hes not expecting it. Mach tornado works similarly... try to start it closer to him though, since it moves more slowly and will be easier for him to see it coming.
 

ckm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
402
this sounds stupid, but play on a NONplatform stage. Becuase of brawls physics, wolf can just camp under platforms and it is extremely hard to approach.
so true... i hate platform stages for this very reason. they really mess up my arial game.
 

ckm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
402
so hows it coming?

one thing i forgot to mention is to abuse your tilts... since wolfs smashes are fast and mk gets kod easily, its best to not engage in smash vs smash competitions with him.... when youre in his face use your ftilt and dtilt to combo him up.
 

JrdnS

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
543
Location
Jax.Florida
its comin pretty good. he came over today and i won about 60% of the time. the new ways of approaching worked. also i didnt fall for his smashes as much. a few months ago when i started maining MK i would beat him all the time. i think i became to predictable. i even threw in some dimensional capes to catch him off guard. and now its getting back to the way it should be. hah. he still has no chance against me at melee. thanks a lot ckm for your guide. and everyone else.
 

Terranrox

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
392
Location
Rowland Heights, SoCal
-_-.... Sometimes I fear the most things I do in my life is pointless but Zephyr and I made a help thread for MK mains and I would appreciate these little threads from cropping out SamuraiPanda also made a help thread in the tactical discussion board...

so as a friendly reminder please look at previous threads before posting...Thank you for future cooperation.
 

JrdnS

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
543
Location
Jax.Florida
i made this before i saw you and zephyrs thread. and right after i did see it i was like oh no im gonna hear it. sorry about that.
 

acv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
496
Location
VA
i came here looking for help against meta knight(i main wolf) so just to let you know not every wolf spams laser and smash attacks.btw good job on not flaming everybody unlike some other parts of the boards....
 

RoxburyGuy58

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
241
Location
'Muricah
Meta-Knight is actually a pretty good match-up against Wolf, but with a character like Wolf, it's understandable if you have trouble from time to time. What you want to do is never use Drill Rush, because it can easily be reflected. Use the Dimensional Cape to play mind games with him. You know that if you hold "A" while doing it, you pop up from behind with a sneak-attack, right? If you double-tap the control stick in the direction you're facing, you'll appear right in front of him with a counter; even if he sheilds, it's a perfect oppurtunity for chaingrabbing! Even more cruel : to trip him (literally), just use your dtilt, then fsmash him. If at all possible, keep him in the air, and juggle him with Mach Tornado. If you get him off of the edge, go after him! He's heavy and takes time to recover, so get down there and use the appropriate aerial (preferably nair, fair, or dair) to get him down. If he grabs the edge, use Shuttle Loop to knock him off and get back on; and don't forget to edgehog. So, in short : MK has superior aerial capabilities and edge-game over him; try to incorporate those into the fight.
 

JrdnS

Smash Ace
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
543
Location
Jax.Florida
i know about most of this i didnt know about the double tap thing. i'll try it out. it should make for a decent mindgame.
 

Korpocalypse

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
231
Location
Central/Eastern LI, NY
I read this thread about a month ago after being beaten by my friends wolf, back when I mained lucario. I picked up MK, tried out some of the things on other people and i just got back from a rematch with that same friend, and I won 2-0 in two matches.
Anyway, things I've noticed are: always try to be in the air just a head above him and maybe a roll's distance or so to the left or right, and stay there. What usually happens is he is pressured into doing an F-smash (try to envoke this by fastfalling then jumping again in the air) or rolling away. In either case, a quick dair will knock him a bit and lead to a possible combo.

if he does catch you on the ground:
at the distance of an f-smash: sh a dair
closer: shield/dodge then grab/f-tilt/d-tilt/d-smash. But whatever you do, be aware that the afterlag of wolf's F and D-smashes is VERY small, and you will have to act swiftly.
Other than that, repeat the original advice, spam dairs, and ledgeguard effectively; and you'll find yourself the victor.

EDIT: plus everything Roxburyguy said
 

metahunter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
135
what ever you do dont edge hog untill he has used his recovery move his sweetspoted forward b will spike
 
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