Time2Brawl
Smash Cadet
Hi, I'm pretty good with Lucario, I need help with Lucas, his pk fires are immense and won't let me get close, while if I fire my Aura, he just absorbs it and it's added to his hp.
HELP!!
HELP!!
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help with lucas
- Thread starter Time2Brawl
- Start date
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Don't shoot spheres at lucas =S Spot-dodge his fire.
If he tries to pk freeze or (thunder?) just double team it, there's enough time to do that.
Besides that .. I dont know. I've had quite a bit of trouble myself, his attacks are too long to spotdodge and he has no recovery time so he can turn around or use a longer attack if i roll in any direction. So I guess the best bet would be to shield a lot of his attacks. Just watch out for his snake.
If he tries to pk freeze or (thunder?) just double team it, there's enough time to do that.
Besides that .. I dont know. I've had quite a bit of trouble myself, his attacks are too long to spotdodge and he has no recovery time so he can turn around or use a longer attack if i roll in any direction. So I guess the best bet would be to shield a lot of his attacks. Just watch out for his snake.
Learn to perfect shield PK fire on the run. You can charge at him, perfect shield the fire, and then hit him with your running attack. Or just perfect shield it and you'll be close enough to him to start attacking. His forward smash hurts a lot, and it's faster than your smash, so stay just out of range of it or use the fastest attacks you have when you're near him. Keep your aura sphere charged but don't use it until you can catch him using his pk thunder or down or up smashing. Lucas is harder to fight in the air, though, and an overall hard match for Lucario. Good luck.
Does Lucario have any aerial options at all to approach Lucas or even Ness?
If you can't perfect shield his PK fire, just roll towards him. Try and stay near him when you hit him off the stage, so you can hit him while he's trying to recover for an easy KO.
If you can't perfect shield his PK fire, just roll towards him. Try and stay near him when you hit him off the stage, so you can hit him while he's trying to recover for an easy KO.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Thanks to Sora Ltd's great sense of 'balance'. Lucas' up smash will not only counter any kind of aerial approach, but will kill at 40%.
Though on second thought, maybe we just aren't double teaming enough.
Though on second thought, maybe we just aren't double teaming enough.
hmm i never thought about the advantage Lucas has over Lucario......
Aura spheres: use almost none at all. Unless you feel you really need to, if so just try to be unpredictable with it. If this Lucas player has any average brain in his head he would absorb any predictable AS. You could try, however, shooting one at him when he is facing the other way (b/c his down b only goes in front, ness wins in down B department :D).
And Nodrak is right. The freakin up smash owns. Against a good Lucas throw any strategy away that involves any aerial, especially down. If you want to be risky you could try and hit Lucas with d-air before the up smash is released since it has so much startup lag.
Basically, dodge roll or double team any projectiles, then close in for a close-up combo. Lucas and Ness both are dangerous if you are far way (see Simna's vids).
This help? Disagree on anything?
Aura spheres: use almost none at all. Unless you feel you really need to, if so just try to be unpredictable with it. If this Lucas player has any average brain in his head he would absorb any predictable AS. You could try, however, shooting one at him when he is facing the other way (b/c his down b only goes in front, ness wins in down B department :D).
And Nodrak is right. The freakin up smash owns. Against a good Lucas throw any strategy away that involves any aerial, especially down. If you want to be risky you could try and hit Lucas with d-air before the up smash is released since it has so much startup lag.
Basically, dodge roll or double team any projectiles, then close in for a close-up combo. Lucas and Ness both are dangerous if you are far way (see Simna's vids).
This help? Disagree on anything?
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Actually Lucas's DownB (psy magnet) will automatically turn him around if the aura sphere hits him from behind =( .. Had to learn that one the hard way (30% heal)
O.d.L
Smash Rookie
what i do is to aproach and when he tries to do something i roll and stab him on his back >=D, for real XD(with f-smash or d-smash or force palm or even aura sphere), but lucas defenetly has an advantage over luc -.-U
JJ259
Smash Apprentice
I don't have much of a problem against him (although this might be because my friend mains him and I play with him a lot). I've found that if a lucas player is spamming pk fires, you can time and space rolls and end up right behind him for an easy grab, FP or basically anything.
When you knock him off the stage it's usually best to wait on the stage until he tries to PK thunder because he has a really long air dodge which makes him hard to combo when he's recovering. When he does PK thunder, if you're close enough you can try and hop out to fair or nair him because he's pretty easy to hit; just make sure you don't mis-time your move and get PK thunderslammed in the face.
Overall, you'll probably have to roll a lot, spot dodge a lot and just be plain whorish with avoiding until you get in close enough to punish him. Don't use smashes too often because his fsmash is a lot faster and if you aren't able to space correctly it will go bad. I would recommend just getting used to the range of his attacks and compare them to the range of your rolls and your own attacks. Eventually you'll find a range that allows you to avoid and punish his stuff without being punished yourself.
also,
unless you are directly above him, NEVER DAIR LUCAS. His usmash will outrange, outlast and definitely out prioritize anything you try and throw at him from above. The only time I even attempt to dair lucas is when i am almost touching him or if he's in the air as well.
When you knock him off the stage it's usually best to wait on the stage until he tries to PK thunder because he has a really long air dodge which makes him hard to combo when he's recovering. When he does PK thunder, if you're close enough you can try and hop out to fair or nair him because he's pretty easy to hit; just make sure you don't mis-time your move and get PK thunderslammed in the face.
Overall, you'll probably have to roll a lot, spot dodge a lot and just be plain whorish with avoiding until you get in close enough to punish him. Don't use smashes too often because his fsmash is a lot faster and if you aren't able to space correctly it will go bad. I would recommend just getting used to the range of his attacks and compare them to the range of your rolls and your own attacks. Eventually you'll find a range that allows you to avoid and punish his stuff without being punished yourself.
also,
unless you are directly above him, NEVER DAIR LUCAS. His usmash will outrange, outlast and definitely out prioritize anything you try and throw at him from above. The only time I even attempt to dair lucas is when i am almost touching him or if he's in the air as well.
Oh yeah for sure last paragraph = truth. Up smash=too much pwnage for a move like lucario's down air (even tho that pwns too).
And yes Odl and jj259. Lucario's roll is definetly beneficial against any character. But probably especially against long range people like lucas. And a force palm > an aerial combo is always nice. Instead of rolling to avoid a pk fire sometimes I double team it.
jj259, is Down air a bad idea to use against lucas when you knock him off the stage? Just wondering, because you didnt mention it and it is vital for his edgegaurding, is it not???
And yes Odl and jj259. Lucario's roll is definetly beneficial against any character. But probably especially against long range people like lucas. And a force palm > an aerial combo is always nice. Instead of rolling to avoid a pk fire sometimes I double team it.
jj259, is Down air a bad idea to use against lucas when you knock him off the stage? Just wondering, because you didnt mention it and it is vital for his edgegaurding, is it not???
JJ259
Smash Apprentice
I wouldn't do dair on lucas when he's recovering because PK thunder comes out of his head. It will just hit you and he'll recover normally. I would try and stick with fair OR if you can RAR a bair that will send them further.
Da N
Smash Journeyman
you can't short hop a dair becuase of his u-smash, it might be slow but if he sees you shorthop it'll come out faster than you think. PK thunder is immensly annoying and can cause problems with edgeguarding.
Aura Sphere is absolutely useless and it just helps him. Your best bet is to use ranged attacks like falling force palm or f-smash and up-smash. D-smash is too slow and will just get you punished.
Aura Sphere is absolutely useless and it just helps him. Your best bet is to use ranged attacks like falling force palm or f-smash and up-smash. D-smash is too slow and will just get you punished.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
BUT If you can manage to dair Lucas' PK Thunder, it will cancel it and he wont be able to recover at all.
JJ259
Smash Apprentice
Yeah but chances are that if you hit his pk thunder, you'll also hit him giving him another upB
Da N
Smash Journeyman
true but if i were to hit the PK thunder and cancel it i wouldnt hit lucas cus thats stupid
JJ259
Smash Apprentice
Well considering that dair hits twice, if you are two close he would get clipped by the second hit.
Da N
Smash Journeyman
i guess but sometimes when you cancel out a PK thunder it also cancels out your move too
Hairbrother
Smash Cadet
I play Lucas and my friend plays Lucario so I can say from experience that you should use your dodge. Dodge past the first PK Fire and then dodge again and you'll be behind Lucas. Try not to be predictable though, and mix it up by dodging back and forth to throw him off on when you'll attack. Lucario's dodge is amazingly good, it's unbelievable how far it goes and how fast it is. Although I'm not sure I should be giving you this advice...
*sigh* again I need help on SWF terminology. Help out the SWF noob: what is a RAR?
Nodrak
Smash Ace
RAR = running aerial reverse. Direction doesnt matter but for the sake of explaining it..
You're running left, you jump. You're facing forwards traveling left in the air. That's just running and jumping NOW:
You're running left, you smash right and immediatly jump. You'll be facing backwards while traveling left so that you can do you bair instead of your fair. (marth users do this to spike you easier)
You're running left, you jump. You're facing forwards traveling left in the air. That's just running and jumping NOW:
You're running left, you smash right and immediatly jump. You'll be facing backwards while traveling left so that you can do you bair instead of your fair. (marth users do this to spike you easier)
Da N
Smash Journeyman
Just to be safe hold left so youll be going left no matter what.
JJ259
Smash Apprentice
Yeah like it's been explained it's basically just a way of doing a bair in a forward direction. I use it because it has a nice amount of damage and knockback and a very nice hitbox.
Yes. It catches so many people off guard if Lucario uses his bair early, they shield then release, and get hit by the invisible hitbox (since the hitbox stays with Lucario's hand longer than the visible aura).
Time2Brawl
Smash Cadet
No, his pk thunder keeps going. Your thinking about ness.
JJ259
Smash Apprentice
not if you attack it. If it hits you it keeps going but not if you cancel it with another attack.
PKPower
Smash Cadet
I have a friend that plays as Lucario and I main Lucas, and there is nothing I hate more than having my smashes countered. Down smash is a good panic move for Lucas when he has a non-range based character on him like Meta Knight, and in this case (you won't be using Aura Sphere) Lucario. Try to see the down smash coming and counter it, it will knock lucas in the air and Lucario has a superior air game to Lucas.
Also Fsmash and Usmash are also good killer moves, you can see the up smash coming (Lucas puts his hands and head toward the ground), but the bat is nasty. You will have to see it coming (I try to bat lucario when he gets to the 100's FYI.)
Another point you guys should know is Lucas's grabs have a high lag time if they miss, use this to your advantage.
Dodge PKF and PKT, Double Team his PKT2.
Also another note you guys should take is Lucas can absorb the energy part of Lucario's Over B. If you get Lucas with the grab part he cannot absorb it however.
Just trying to help, good luck!
Also Fsmash and Usmash are also good killer moves, you can see the up smash coming (Lucas puts his hands and head toward the ground), but the bat is nasty. You will have to see it coming (I try to bat lucario when he gets to the 100's FYI.)
Another point you guys should know is Lucas's grabs have a high lag time if they miss, use this to your advantage.
Dodge PKF and PKT, Double Team his PKT2.
Also another note you guys should take is Lucas can absorb the energy part of Lucario's Over B. If you get Lucas with the grab part he cannot absorb it however.
Just trying to help, good luck!