help vs luigi

[ksadkiller]

i got this friend who's pretty good with luigi. and i just cant seem to find a way to beat him. i cant waveshine into anything cuz he slides. uthrow to uair doesnt work cuz he nairs as fast as possible. and his aerial game has alot of priority. i have no idea how to deal with this guy. can i get some help?

 

[BIGEE1212]

unfortunately luigi is pretty good against a fox. but there are ways around it. waveshine isn't necessary and won't work.

and luigi has a pretty solid aerial game. the best thing to do with fox is stay on the ground, dthrow a lot and mind games are key.

i main luigi and i always find fox as an easy opponent

 

[Oskurito]

Drillshine>neutral wavedash>laser...

Drillshine/shine>jc into illusion asap>uptilt>uair

Fox must be really gay in this match up if want to win. Trying to get him out of the stage as early as possible is a great idea since luigi has almost nothing to do against shine spikes so time those properly. Laser camp works well just keep in mind that luigi can cut the distance between you and him in seconds because of his ridiculously long wavedash. Don't abuse combos on luigi, he can easily interrupt those nair juggles with his nair wich is surprisingly fast and has a lot of priority(as well as the rest of his aerials). If you're getting too much wavedashes and d-smashes try to space your self well for a shield grab, if you're wondering what throw to use, you can use back throw then run and shoots some lasers or you can use uair> short hop or stand there waiting for him to do an nair then juggle him with an uair inmediatly afterwards, if you're near the edge use b-throw or f-throw to get him out of the stage for easy shine spikes. Also when trying to shield grab him keep in mind that he can double aerial and jab you as soon as he reaches the ground(asuming he did the L-cancel) so be patient when trying to shield grab and time it properly (between the aerials or after the jab)

Hope this helps you

 

[felix45]

beating luigi is a cakewalk

just nair, laser, and shine a lot


the only thing luigi has is shield grabs if you dont shine and if you are really predictable he'll outprioritize your nair, but if you are fast and mindgame luigi to come to you its like a free win.

 

[RaynEX]

nair->usmash works well. Try uthrowing and waiting for the nair to come out, THEN try uairing him to outprioritize it. Works well for me

Shine spike alot too. For kills, try drilljab->usmash.

 

[Falco&Victory]

my advice

 

[RaynEX]

if only his airdodge was a barrel-roll.

 

[shinkazenokizzu]

if only his airdodge was a barrel-roll.

you enter my mind and stole what i was going to type >_<

 

[RaynEX]

lol. my bad.

 

[Sosuke]

You Made A Thread For Raymond Lmfao!
XD

 

[RaynEX]

don't revive old threads.

but anyways:

uthrow and wait for the luigi to nair, then uair him. Its too good.

Don't nair because Luigi will CC it, just drill, shine and usmash.

Don't forget to laser.

 

[kidan]

Hi bernard

 

[unknown522]

Hi bernard

lol, I'm quoting every post by kidan

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

About shine-combos on luigi: I was messing around today with him and I noticed that if you do a perfect WD out of the shine fast enough you can combo it into a dash attack (registers as a combo in training mode).
This should mean you can follow up with a dash attack canceled grab... O.o I tried it and it works, dunno if the dash attack canceled grab is fast enough for it to "combo" though (ie, does he have frames where he isnt stunned before he is grabbed)
I never see this used, I thought it was impossible to waveshine combo luigi lol, apparently not.
Maybe Luigi can get away just through DI:ing away from the shine btw. X-P havent tested that

 

[Ace83]

beating luigi is a cakewalk

i disagree. the way i see it, luigi has a slight advantage in the open stage and fox as a HUGE advantage on the edge.

anyway, why is your friend playing as luigi anyway?!?! we all know what the REAL players do..

http://www.legorobotcomics.com/?id=45

 

[RaynEX]

Umm...

No waveshine combos work on Luigi because decent Luigi will D.I. THE SHINE.

Ace83: Camping ***** luigi, and Fox has super priority over him among other things. The only stage Luigi has a real chance of simply winning is FD. If Fox bans that its over.

 

[Ace83]

Ace83: Camping ***** luigi, and Fox has super priority over him among other things. The only stage Luigi has a real chance of simply winning is FD. If Fox bans that its over.

Camping does usually **** luigi.. priority though??? can you elaborate? also, luigi has insane combo potential in this matchup (if he can find a way inside). this is very winnable for luigi, even though fox has the advantage.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Luigi is a gay matchup.

But Fox is a gay character so it works out.

 

[Sh0ckwave]

uthrow to uair has to be positioned right to out-prioritize his neutral. and shine wrecks him. camping is gay but it works too. and his recovery is atrociously interceptable. other than that luigi's beast.

 

[RaynEX]

Its easy to see what Luigi is going to do and weave around his hit-boxes. He has virtually no maneuverability while airborne, even though he hangs in the air for so long. This tends to work against him.

So when he comes down with a nair you can simply wait and usmash and outprioritize his nair or just jump around him and bair.

What's worse, if you predict things like ledge-hops or down+bs...you can SUPER punish him. You block a tornado and it leads to an usmash which will kill in excesses of 80% on most levels. You block a ledge-hopped fair/dair/nair and jump out of shield and shine him for a kill as well. Without a double jump he's screwed.

These things are all dependant on IF you can force him into that type of situation of course. Still, having so many efficient ways of destroying him as a character makes it almost impossible to win. Then again, you have the rare gems like Ka_Master - who wreck Foxes left and right.

Bottom line is: if the Fox doesn't get grabbed and/or plays out of his shield like he's supposed to, there should be no way for Luigi to even start a combo, let alone catch him or grab him.

 

[Sosuke]

This guy doesn't even use Smashboards anymore.
You can stop posting now. =)

 

[RaynEX]

I was replying to the other people who were posting in this thread. : p

 

[Ace83]

i agree with most of that raynex. i'm not so sure about saying "if you predict".. because that applies to everyone lol. anyway i really feel like a luigi main with some decent mindgames that really has wavedashing down, can always sneak a grab in here and there.. even against fox (falco's lasers ). but hey, thats just me. oh well

 

[KirbyKaze]

anyway i really feel like a luigi main with some decent mindgames that really has wavedashing down, can always sneak a grab in here and there.. even against fox (falco's lasers ). but hey, thats just me. oh well

you can just u-smash out of shield or chase him (wd out of shield) if he tornadoes your shield. because fox is fast. it takes reflexes but he's punishable. if sheik can do it, fox can too lol.

and if you use platforms properly he won't grab you much silly. luigi's like ultra slow in the air tehehee. fox is like ultra fast in the air. so yeah. you can make his ground speed not matter pretty easily if you choose to.

just don't miss l-cancels and use your platforms right and manuever away from his ultra slow aerial movement and you'll be okay.

^____^

 

[RaynEX]

Ace: The cool thing about prediction is that it varies when taking each character's playstyle and moveset into account. Luigi only has so many ways of approaching and defending himself, and because of this - he is bound to have a slight tilt in his overall predictability.

When evaluating the options Luigi has during d.i. specific combos, and wavedash rushdowns/double aerials on your shield - it all starts to get really, really recycled. I'm not saying that you can't be creative with Luigi. I'm saying that lack of a quick, varied and EFFECTIVE offensive game leads Luigi down the path of redundancy.

 

[Ace83]

a correct prediction can pay be a stock for luigi as well as fox, thats all i'm saying.

for entertainment purposes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLVvzsoKqwU

can such things never be accomplished on pokemon stadium (assuming FD banned)?

btw, i know what happened in this video, so no johning. a fox player of this caliber rarely makes such simple mistakes. just felt like posting it.

 

[RaynEX]

SW and KA are horrible examples of this match-up. They play together ALL THE TIME. Its like if we compared Azen and Chillen.

For players that interact on a regular basis its easy to see how one of them can do really well in a certain match, and vice-versa. If there is any player that can beat SW, it would be a member of his own crew.

They know each other too well, tendencies, d.i. patterns and methods of recovery. They've all been playing each other for a long time.

 

[RaynEX]

SW and KA are horrible examples of this match-up. They play together ALL THE TIME. Its like if we compared Azen and Chillen.

For players that interact on a regular basis its easy to see how one of them can do really well in a certain match, and vice-versa. If there is any player that can beat SW, it would be a member of his own crew.

They know each other too well, tendencies, d.i. patterns and methods of recovery. They've all been playing each other for a long time.

 

[Lovage 805]

drillshine illusion is the best combo in the game

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Umm...

No waveshine combos work on Luigi because decent Luigi will D.I. THE SHINE. .

It was just a thought... since the dash attack can reach a non di:ing luigi AND a JC grab can reach him out of a perfect waveshine if you have just a little bit of forward momentum (ie after a dair shffl)... a dash attack canceled grab (which has massive range) should be able to reach him with a little bit of forward momentum from for example a dair shffl even if he DI's away.
...
On the other hand, this has probably all been tested already >.> (since its pretty "official" that waveshine combos dont work on luigi) Just wondering if the dash attack canceled grab thing has been thought of and tested.

Or you can just shine->SHL. Camp combo ftw! (it IS a true combo lol)

 

[KirbyKaze]

dair shine jc illusion

but you gotta jc the shine into illusion really fast

come on raynex step it up

 

[RaynEX]

I know about the illusion and the laser thing. The laser combo i actually do because its viable.

Illusion combo isn't worth the effort, and i wouldn't try it on small levels, which is basically where i always take Luigi in tournament. Sometimes going for combos isn't in your best interest as a Fox player. It makes you want that next hit so bad, you get unnecessarily greedy - and do random things to attain that next hit. Running off to shinespike can get you faired sometimes, and trying to air combo him will get you naired if you jump at the wrong time.

The way I play Luigi is really gay. I just force him to the edge with shine and dair, or laser him a bit so he gets impatient then WDs towards me. Space bairs so he can't CC dsmash and when he's off I edge-guard.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Yhea Shine->illusion isn't that great, illusion just lags to much to combo luigi. He can usually nair you or jump away before you can do anything.
But something that IS great against luigi that I can't beleive I forgot to mention is: nair->reverse uptilt. Depending on percentage and DI you can combo it into almost anything (you can start uair juggles with this), it's to good.
You can also do dair->(reverse) uptilt if you think he might be CC:ing, but the timing here is kinda hard if you want it to combo (into the uptilt, practice in training mode)

Dtilt comboes him decently aswell, nair/dair->jab->dtilt is be a good launcher. Can lead to nair->nair combos or uairs. It's easier to DI away from the dtilt combos though, so the utilt is better

 

[RaynEX]

Nair is okay, but all good Luigis will CC everything you do.

The nair itself will be CC->dsmashed before you even get a chance to utilt. Thats why I said I use drill alot vs. him.

 

[BrianTheLion]

when u up throw up air and he nairs just charge a up smash after u upthrow him its mindgamez

 

[CDCP]

uthrow and wait for the luigi to nair, then uair him. Its too good.

or just uthrow > bair
if they stop falling into the trap

 

[halcyon.days]

About shine-combos on luigi: I was messing around today with him and I noticed that if you do a perfect WD out of the shine fast enough you can combo it into a dash attack (registers as a combo in training mode).
This should mean you can follow up with a dash attack canceled grab... O.o I tried it and it works, dunno if the dash attack canceled grab is fast enough for it to "combo" though (ie, does he have frames where he isnt stunned before he is grabbed)
I never see this used, I thought it was impossible to waveshine combo luigi lol, apparently not.
Maybe Luigi can get away just through DI:ing away from the shine btw. X-P havent tested that

What exactly is a dash attack canceled grab?

 

[Havokbringer]

So I'm repeating whats already been said: Laser alot.Try to double laser too if you can.

If you want to be annoying pillar the luigi's shield but instead wavedash away from them and keep lasering. If the shine hits them its funny as hell, if not well then that just means you wont get grabbed.

When your edgegaurding just wait for the luigi to use his up b then crouch cancel to shine right after his up b hits you.

Other then that nair to up smash is the way to go.