Help vs Ganon (lol)

[chesterwester]

Okay, I don't have any video links to upload, but I think i can explain where my skill level is, and what I'm struggling with:

Skill Level
------------
*Able to short hop
*Able to string combos (but somehow I have trouble replicating the gentleman on command)
*Can shuffl, but not good enough to the point where I actually use in in gameplay
*I suck at wave-landing/ dashing with falcon

Problems I'm having against Ganon
----------------------------------------
*Basically, I'm at a loss for the air game against ganon.
.................*Although I'm good at avoiding and countering Ganon's f-air with dash-dancing followed by a grab-to-combo, I have a lot of difficulty dealing with the f-air when I'm in the air
................*I can't counter against an u-air when I'm above Ganon.
................*In close-quarter areas (such as the back of the corneria stage), I can't do a thing on the ground. With the limited moving space, I get destroyed. Plus as mentioned before, I have trouble against him in the air.
................*I feel vulnerable going into the air when below Ganon, because of the hitbox advantage of the f-air and d-air for Ganon.
***********************************************************************

Any advice on how to improve my air game and lose my reliance on large areas to run around would be appreciated.

 

[Psychoace]

Just keep working on that shffling that'll be what really helps you against the ganon. You really don't need the wavedash for falcon, but it is good to know. The best advice I can really give for the rest is just try to stay under ganon his uair will probably ruin you most of the time. Your best bet however if you do get thrown up or something where you have to deal with it would probably be falcons bair. Jump away from it whenever your can then bair him.

Make sure to get that shffling down and nair will be your best friend against ganon. Essentially just be faster than that ganon which isn't hard.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lSkkQPPrZNY&feature=related

Here is a pretty good example, I think of ultimascout vs. renth. Most of the time he tries to stay under renth.

 

[orintemple]

Get your shuffling down and you will be golden. No Ganon is going to be able to keep up with a Falcon who can shuffl well. Also grab to fair or bair (depending on the enemy DI) is a good thing to keep in mind. Over-B(on ground) is also a good move to use if you are sure you can hit with it.

Falcon, being so fast, is bound to have trouble in tight areas. Thats when you go for the grab combos because you don't need any room to throw up then jump straight up and knee them in the face.

 

[chesterwester]

@psychoace
wow, that video really helps give me an idea on how to play against ganon! i appreciate it.
one question though: how is he going from a ledge attack to a short-hop knee?

@orintemple
thx for the combo tips, i've been experimenting with them, and they've proven to yield very nice results!

i've got one question about grab combo-ing in tight areas: how to you approach for the grab in a tight area? i'm having trouble getting to ganon. if i roll dodge to try to get close to him, i'm not always facing the right way, and i often get forced off the edge. if i try to neutral dodge as i wait for him to reach me, he can jab faster than my dodge (and usuallly ends up with him chain grabbing me). if i try and just run toward him, his down-a, jab, and side a prevent me from doing it. am i missing something?

thx to both of you for the suggestions. the video posted showed pretty much what i would be doing anyways, but the shuffling makes a SIGNIFICANT difference!

 

[RaynEX]

Chester: He ledge-hopped.

Like the other two guys said, shffling is literally the foundation of Falcon's game (as it is with most all characters, save Peach, Sheik, etc.). If theres anything you should practice, it should be flat out consistancy. Multiple Nairs, uairs, fairs and bairs without fail, on command. Eventually, you'll be uthrowing Ganon to fullhop FFed Nairs, to uairs, to knees...or something along those lines.

A rule of thumb btw: I've found that most of falcon's combos start from an uthrow on Ganon at mid-percents. 40-60ish. If he goes to high from the uthrow, try to jump straight up and knee. You'll probably catch him in the middle of his Double jump. This method ***** Marth at 60-80. Its instant death.

Hope I helped.

 

[chesterwester]

thx raynex. I'm glad to see that i'm at least doing SOMETHING right with the up-throw to knee combo for mid-range dmg. thank you all of you for the help you've provided.

 

[abit_rusty]

From 70% to 110%, give or take, you can up throw to knee. Instant KO.

 

[OmgItsWill]

Retreating nairs will usually **** Ganons.

 

[chesterwester]

Retreating nairs will usually **** Ganons.

i'll try that. i usuallly play with a f-air spammer, so i'll have to work on my shuffl'ing/timing as a whole.
i've been focusing too much on ground offense (which i know i shouldnt), and any tips like that help me a lot. thx

 

[RaynEX]

If the Ganon SHs at you while your SHing back and nairing, I doubt the kicks would outrange his fair.

I suggest you focus on grabs. Tech-chase at low percents, knee kills at high ones. As with most of Falcon's match-ups, his grab game plays a key role.

 

[Psychoace]

If the Ganon SHs at you while your SHing back and nairing, I doubt the kicks would outrange his fair.

I suggest you focus on grabs. Tech-chase at low percents, knee kills at high ones. As with most of Falcon's match-ups, his grab game plays a key role.

They would clash most of the time. falcon can repeat nairs faster than ganon and fairs though.

 

[RaynEX]

Are you suggesting you outspam a Ganon?

Amount means nothing if the Ganon is good. Spacing + no openings vs. a jab happy, ftilt-spacing-to-stop-your-approaches Ganon....

At least thats the kind that I play.

 

[orintemple]

@psychoace
wow, that video really helps give me an idea on how to play against ganon! i appreciate it.
one question though: how is he going from a ledge attack to a short-hop knee?

@orintemple
thx for the combo tips, i've been experimenting with them, and they've proven to yield very nice results!

i've got one question about grab combo-ing in tight areas: how to you approach for the grab in a tight area? i'm having trouble getting to ganon. if i roll dodge to try to get close to him, i'm not always facing the right way, and i often get forced off the edge. if i try to neutral dodge as i wait for him to reach me, he can jab faster than my dodge (and usuallly ends up with him chain grabbing me). if i try and just run toward him, his down-a, jab, and side a prevent me from doing it. am i missing something?

thx to both of you for the suggestions. the video posted showed pretty much what i would be doing anyways, but the shuffling makes a SIGNIFICANT difference!

Sorry I didn't respond earlier.

A good way to approach with a grab in a small area is to DD JC grab. First you dashdance just out of his range so he doesn't know what your going to do then run in and press Y or X to jump and press Z immediately after that. Of course the DD isn't necessary but its usually a good way to keep the opponent guessing.That will cause a Jump Canceled grab which results in you doing your standing grab instead of your dragged out dash grab animation, although Falcon's dash grab is relatively quick anyway so you can probably get away without the JC on Ganon. It's always good to practice it though.

 

[Psychoace]

Are you suggesting you outspam a Ganon?

Amount means nothing if the Ganon is good. Spacing + no openings vs. a jab happy, ftilt-spacing-to-stop-your-approaches Ganon....

At least thats the kind that I play.

He can't exactly do that right off though if he faired, well before falcon naired or something first.

 

[chesterwester]

Are you suggesting you outspam a Ganon?

Amount means nothing if the Ganon is good. Spacing + no openings vs. a jab happy, ftilt-spacing-to-stop-your-approaches Ganon....

At least thats the kind that I play.

lol definitely the kinds i play

 

[RaynEX]

Play out of your shield. If he always jabs to cover his aerials, block his aerial and the jab, then disaster-hop out of your shield and nair, or simply shield grab.

Playing against a Ganon is mostly dependant on how patient you are. If you run straight in without a plan, you get owned alot of the time.

 

[abit_rusty]

Play out of your shield. If he always jabs to cover his aerials, block his aerial and the jab, then disaster-hop out of your shield and nair, or simply shield grab.

Playing against a Ganon is mostly dependant on how patient you are. If you run straight in without a plan, you get owned alot of the time.

Ditto...and applies to CF vs anyone....if you just randomly go in shffling aerials you'll get nowhere fast. Assuming your opponent is competent of course.

 

[RaynEX]

Well, I don't see many noobs playing Ganon. You'll get owned hard if you play a slow character and have no tech. skill or mental game. Usually, smarter players lean towards slower characters. I.e: Ganon, DK.

(although DK isn't particularly slow, you get the idea.)