Help versus Spacies

[Eonn]

I struggle a lot against Falco especially. I have no idea how to deal with his lasers and approaches, shffl aerials, and I can't even edgeguard. How can I deal with these? How do I cover most his options for recovery? A lot of the time I'll drop down then double jump nair but most the time it clashes with falco illusion or gets beat outright by it.

 

[Jmook11]

In terms of lasers and his approaches, Nair OOS is your best option. Its 1 frame faster than grab, and can reset neutral. Basically your OOS game needs to be on point against Falco. Here are some examples:
-Nair OOS
As stated above, its great for interrupting Falco's approaches
-WD OOS
This one can avoid any SHFFL aerials if timed right. A good way to use this is to run up and hold shield, then wavedash back.
-Bair OOS
Probably not as useful as the others but can still have its uses. Mainly if Falco is behind you and Nair's hitbox wont connect. This is if you want to land percent, because a wavedash away is much safer
-Shield Grab
As Sheik mains, we all love getting those grabs and tech chases!!! No doubt about it, but what can separate a good Sheik main from an amazing Sheik main is the timing in which they grab OOS. If you have 20XX, practice your shield game on shine pressure. Usually the right time to grab is when:
-Their aerial is high on your shield
-After they shine. That is if they're doing basic pressure, b/c a double shine can punish your grab.

So that summarizes OOS game. Now lets talk about edgeguarding. As stated by Armada, the best way to think about edgeguarding is to cover the fastest option, and eliminate it. Once they can't use that option, you can worry about the other ones which are much easier to cover.

It seems like when you input your double jump nairs, you do them either too early, or too late. Nairs hitbox lasts for a really long time, but its important to know when to time it. You should Nair the second you hear the *ting* sound that comes out of Falco's phantasm. When it connects, fade back onto the stage, turn around and grab ledge. At this point, they will have no choice but to use their Up-B, so Bair them!!! Bair is your best tool against Up-B.

Thats pretty much the basics, hope that helped

 

[Eonn]

In terms of lasers and his approaches, Nair OOS is your best option. Its 1 frame faster than grab, and can reset neutral. Basically your OOS game needs to be on point against Falco. Here are some examples:
-Nair OOS
As stated above, its great for interrupting Falco's approaches
-WD OOS
This one can avoid any SHFFL aerials if timed right. A good way to use this is to run up and hold shield, then wavedash back.
-Bair OOS
Probably not as useful as the others but can still have its uses. Mainly if Falco is behind you and Nair's hitbox wont connect. This is if you want to land percent, because a wavedash away is much safer
-Shield Grab
As Sheik mains, we all love getting those grabs and tech chases!!! No doubt about it, but what can separate a good Sheik main from an amazing Sheik main is the timing in which they grab OOS. If you have 20XX, practice your shield game on shine pressure. Usually the right time to grab is when:
-Their aerial is high on your shield
-After they shine. That is if they're doing basic pressure, b/c a double shine can punish your grab.

So that summarizes OOS game. Now lets talk about edgeguarding. As stated by Armada, the best way to think about edgeguarding is to cover the fastest option, and eliminate it. Once they can't use that option, you can worry about the other ones which are much easier to cover.

It seems like when you input your double jump nairs, you do them either too early, or too late. Nairs hitbox lasts for a really long time, but its important to know when to time it. You should Nair the second you hear the *ting* sound that comes out of Falco's phantasm. When it connects, fade back onto the stage, turn around and grab ledge. At this point, they will have no choice but to use their Up-B, so Bair them!!! Bair is your best tool against Up-B.

Thats pretty much the basics, hope that helped

Thank you very much! One more thing, what exactly is considered poor laser spacing by falco and how can I punish it? A lot of the time I find myself tanking lasers and throwing out ftilts but that doesn't work consistently. I'll also try shielding a laser and then nairing but it will usually miss by just a bit and I'll get punished.

Also, is there any way to practice SDIing falco combos in 20XX?

 

[Jmook11]

Thank you very much! One more thing, what exactly is considered poor laser spacing by falco and how can I punish it? A lot of the time I find myself tanking lasers and throwing out ftilts but that doesn't work consistently. I'll also try shielding a laser and then nairing but it will usually miss by just a bit and I'll get punished.

Also, is there any way to practice SDIing falco combos in 20XX?

I forgot to mention above, sometimes the only thing that you can do is Buffer Roll. It essentially does what Nair OOS does, but it can be safer if they dont read your roll. If the Falco has perfect pressure, then stick away from the risky stuff unless you KNOW it will work!

In terms of dealing with laser pressure, platform camping is good when you aren't as confident with your OOS game. Generally Battlefield is the best stage for you in this matchup and you should NEVER play on FD (No platforms). From the platform, you can SH needle, or wait for them to come to you and bait them to lose stage control. I generally like to wait and let them throw out an aerial, and I Shield-Drop and counter it.

In a perfect world where everyone is frame perfect 99/100 times and IS good enough (lol m2k), Powershielding is your best counter to lasers. But its difficult to pull off consistently, and half the time you'll be sittin there trying to powershield while you are giving them free chances to strike and get in. 20XX also helps. Here are the in-game toggles for it if you haven't seen it already:

For using SDI against Falco combos, there really isnt a way to practice it alone. You just have to fight hundreds of them and learn the timing on your own. If you haven't learned already, I would work on the proper DI for pillars (Away), as that will help you more than an attempt to SDI.

Though if you're REALLY looking for a way to work on it alone, I think I've found a way:
1. Enter 20XX
2. Change game mode to *Develop* in Debug Menu
3. Have two controllers plugged in and pick Sheik and Falco (duh)
4. Use the controller that controls Falco and make him SH Dair towards Sheik. But BEFORE you do that, hit pause. The game should freeze, but don't worry! You can go to the next frame by pressing Z. Now, make sure he is in his Dair animation before the hitbox comes out
5. Now pick up the controller that controls Sheik. Advance a couple frames until Falco hits you. From here, hold the C-Stick away, and hold the Joystick to the right at the same time. Every time you advance a frame, move up a notch on the joystick, and go back on the next frame. This is supposedly frame perfect SDI, which is of course impossible. But Sheik should move quite alot, enough to be out of Shine range. In mid match, you won't have time to perform all those inputs, but you CAN hold the C-stick away as well as the Joystick on reaction. The C-Stick buffers ASDI, which means that you get a free SDI input by using it. A good way to use this is when you Up-B onto the stage and you know they will ledge hop and Dair you. This can also apply to Fox as well

I think that covers the basics of it. If you have any questions just pm me and I'll be more than happy to answer them!!

Happy Smashing

 

[Stride]

In mid match, you won't have time to perform all those inputs, but you CAN hold the C-stick away as well as the Joystick on reaction. The C-Stick buffers ASDI, which means that you get a free SDI input by using it.

The C-stick doesn't give you any additional ASDI, nor does it buffer anything; it just overrides the control stick's ASDI. The only reason to use it is when you want to ASDI and SDI/DI in different directions. ASDI also moves you significantly less far than SDI, so alone it doesn't particularly help.

When you input SDI you can just input the ASDI with the control stick by continuing to hold it after the SDI input.

 

[SsbGum]

Yo what's up! I'll drop my thoughts since I **** on falco. I do pretty well in my region for it, have some decent wins.

Lasers approach in a very horizontal plane, obviously. Create pressure off of the main plane. Unless your power shield game is on point, don't be afraid to use the platforms.

But don't just jump on a platform and wait. Do things. Make sure when you do things on platforms, you create scenarios where you can punish falco coming from beneath you. Ultimately, your goal is to force falco into a scenario where he can't cover the horizontal plane, and instead he is forced to come at your from vertical. Here's the tricky party, Falco is powerful vertically too.

But suddenly you can compete a lot easier when you force Falco to approach. It's hard to conceive this notion considering the difference in projectiles. But if you can escape to a platform and charge a few needles, you will force falco to approach you. If Falco doesn't take the bait, now you have needles to play with for platform drop needle grabs etc.

I would keep working hard hard on just doing things on platforms such as shield drops, and just honestly learning how to move yourself comfortably between them, it's essential if you struggle with lasers.

However, I think the most powerful counter to lasers is Power Shielding. It's a tough timing, but worth practicing. Falco has infinite bullets, but suddenly, if even one out of every 5-6 lasers gets sent back, the Falco might put a few less bullets in the clip.

If everytime Falco lasers, his chances of getting that same laser (with hit stun) back in the face is greater than 10%. Suddenly it's way more risky every time that Falco short hop lasers.

What this pressure of potential Power Shielding does, is alleviate laser pressure obviously, but it also gives you an opportunity to play on even ground with Falco, which can neutralize his vertical pressure.

So I would look to two ways to deal with Lasers. Play the platforms and disjoint the horizontal plane falco is trying to establish, and just don't be afraid to try to power shield. I know I can power shield, and when I play tournament matches. I count on myself landing one out of three. Could you imagine how scary an opponent is for a falco player, if they can't laser? Just some thoughts on those.

So I'm still working on my spacie edge guarding a whole year later. It's honestly slept on pretty hard. You have to get in the habit of acting on your opponents positioning, pay attention to where your opponent is headed, and what they way. Needles covers the horizontal space above the ledge. No need to be so quick to jump out after a hit. Watch, React.

If I can smack them off stage from somewhere not super close to the ledge, I will try to cover the horizontal with a needle, THEN react. This let's you cover the immediate side b over the ledge. From this point you move towards the ledge and react to where they position their character. If the spacie lets themselves drop below the edge, from this position they can ONLY UP B. So in this position, take ledge, either back air, nair over stage etc.

Drop down and fair up B's is really dank, but chill on that and trust in your characters Bair. If the spacies chooses to Up B and they are above the horizontal axis of the ledge, you can jump out and fair them, you can turn around bair, you can Reverse needle cancel into a bair !

I would chill on the dj nair. Honestly, it's a great option, but beatable because it costs you to commit. Spacies will call you out on it if you try to force it too much.

Final edge guard thoughts: You can do it, just relax, your character isn't this bionic machine. Take your time and flow with optimal reactions.
You will ALWAYS regret letting a spacie live after you get them off the stage.

Okay, Im way too out of it, I don't even know if this advice was good, hope some of it helped at least force you to think about some different ways to approach Falco. :D