Help my Marth please.

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Title says all...

This was my first tournament really, I was pretty nervous, but I think I did ok.

http://www.getyourtournament.com/400684.html

http://www.getyourtournament.com/400673.html

Any suggestions? I also need help on Marth dittoes too.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

*Accidental Double Post*

 

[knightpraetor]

well, i watched your marth dittos but then realized that i hadn't actually seen anything..something about 8 hrs of dawn of war...fries the mind..anyways i'll comment later if i find some time..hope you had fun!

ok well vs fox you seem to miss your cg a lot...your spacing was off a few times but other than that you seemed roughly equal in skill to him. One thing that was bothersome is you didn't seem to keep good track of the spacing between your opponent at around 30 secs in..it bothered me because you released the fair after yous hould have already seen that he'd decided to move backwards. This really hurt you because you had already used your second jump (i guess you're trying to dodge lasers) and could have cost you an early life

at 1:40ish you might have been safer just to dtilt since he might tech if you thought he was going to miss the tech.

on the next life you misspace a double fair (don't try to pressure people with fulljumped dairs, doesn't work

then after getting comboed, you fsmashed at a rather inopportune place i think at least. For one from the fox's position i would have put highest odds on either a bair, a turn around to grab, or a dash away..any of which would have punished a fsmash there. The fox chooses dash away.luckily he dashed away farther and didn't just return and punish like he should have.

know your percentages on your chain throw.

i'm concluding that you double jump way too much..it's not even rationally placed at points where you might want to use lasers or close the gap..for the use you used it you could just full jump fastfall

overall i wouldn't say the fox was much better than you..but there are at least 2 or 3 points in the match where you did moves after the fox had already left the zone where you were aiming for..you need to react a little faster. Point in case the fair and then the dtilts later in the match
and at 2:19 you're already tossing out the nair assuming the fox is going to rush you which he doesn't he just lands and punishes your lag by rushing in under your range. at 2:50 you finally use a double jump for a useful purpose..that's allowable there (i assume you were nervous about him getting underneath you before you could fastfall the aerial)..but really you DJ too much..i'd think i was watching a vs falco match.


when the fox went over you with his aerial you could have either shielded or tried for uptilt..based on the vid i'd say shielding would have been the better b


anyways i just realized this match is really lacking in uptilts for a match where the fox goes full jump dair this much..so ya, get used to using that tilt more..there were lots of opportunities.


from here it gets better till the end..you misspace a few aerials, but overall you don't make any drastic mistakes, if you were planning to go past him after that one fair you could have just dashed originally instead of wd past him. I assume you expected to need to shield...WD past is kinda risky because it's slow..i probably would have just rolled, but w/e it worked.

At the end of the match you had a lot of time after the firefox had started that you could have gotten on the stage with and edgeguarded. instead you waited and faired

finally on the last life it looks like you grabbed after his spot dodge had started, either that or you should have been able to act before the upsmahs i would think with teh turn around time added

I realize that i didn't really put much in the way of times..i'm kinda worried about some of my comments being placed out of chronological order since i rewatched the vid so many times.

anyways as a whole i don't think the fox beat you by superior mindgames, it's more like you weren't fully aware of his position or misjudged spacings and then left yourself wide open too much. That and you don't uptilt enough. Chaingrabs were ok, but practice them more.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

well, i watched your marth dittos but then realized that i hadn't actually seen anything..something about 8 hrs of dawn of war...fries the mind..anyways i'll comment later if i find some time..hope you had fun!

... What?... o_O

 

[GofG]

*was watching round 2*
At 0:36 ish you should have sweetspotted the edge, no biggie.

At 1:45 ish you air dodged a bit, falcon can punish air dodges. This guy didn't though :/.

Work more on getting falcon in the air in front of you. Then just utilt him.

 

[A-Laon]

Sidesmash more.

 

[knightpraetor]

well on to the marth match in set 1. Iyou seem to know the matchup a little better than vs fox. at 34 you fsmash when the opponent has plenty of time to shield. You then fsmash again when he rolls at 36...be a little less fsmashy and dash dance some grabs or slip in some aerials well spaced in these times..or wait and react, fsmashing at grounded opponents who have timeto shield, spotdodge, etc; is a no no with marth..if i had been playing you after this point i would start baiting fsmashes for the free grabs

anyways i'm not saying remove them from your game entirely, sometimes marth players like to wait that extra moment and then throw out a random fsmash when the opponent decides to move, but these are early fsmashes when the opponent has too much time to react.

your air game is pretty good

at 2:30ish when you're coming back you should expect the bair edgeguard and at least try a fastfall fair or a fastfall to up+B or anything tricksy..continuing to recover is a bad idea in such situations.

at 2:59 that death i feel is caused by playing around when the opponent spawned, just remember in the future not to be dashdancing under central platform with back to enemy. Either do the movement games farther away from where he spawns or pick a platform and light shield.

near the end you pay for choosing to fsmash after a throw when enough time has already gone by to allow a jump out...since he'd already missed the DI away (or in this case more likely he planned a DI in and up or something to bait you..or could just be coincidence) you should just assume the jump out and jump to aerial...anyways get used to learning stun time and when an opponent can jump out over your smash

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Thanks alot on the imput knightpraetor.

You're right, I really am lacking knowledge on alot of Match ups, and it's really killing me. I'll do my best to work on these match ups.

Thanks for the imput everyone.

 

[knightpraetor]

edit: what i said earlier about assuming he'll jump out and just jumping to aerial is technically wrong..you should just wait and react...if he falls further you can fsmash and a jump out won't save him..and if he jumps then you react and aerial.


and when i said don't pressure with full jumped dfairs..you can use it as an approach..but you were using it to follow to closely and stay on the fox so you got grabbed


Anyways, good luck improving your game..it's always a struggle learning to think about what you're doing wrong..it's also devilishly hard in a match to find time to think.

i wish i was still at my brother's point. He said today, "i've given up on going for grabs, because i never get anything off them since you always DI them right:\"

he's getting better but i hope someday i can best out more than just m2, bowser, and kirby against him. If he lives with me next year he'll get better...right now i'm the best on my campus so i get a lot of guests

lol, i had to explain to him how pathetically easy it is to just abuse shield on someone who doesn't incorporate enough grabs into their game or adapt.

also phoenix, to help improve your knowledge of when to use marth's fsmash..my advice would be to find another marth and then try to bait fsmashes and punish..just practice things like baited shields to wavedash grab or jumping out at just the right moment to punish fsmash happy marth's..even trying random air dodges can sometimes work..as you start to understand what makes a marth want to fsmash you'll both get better at baiting opponents and be less likely to overuse it yourself

anyways, i'm never going to get any better unless i get some more competition i think:\ here's to hoping William and mary class of 2011 will be good at melee. Though i'm also going to try training my friends..nothing like better opponents to improve your game.

and don't feel bad about not knowing matchups..just takes time i got ***** by a ganny and i had no clue about that matchup:\ was playing fox and i had heard he countered ganny so i wasn't that worried even though i'd never played a fox vs ganny before...needless to say i was ***** hardcore..i also got ***** in a sheik vs falcon matchup even though i knew the matchup from falcon's side:\ another matchup i'd never really played.

i mean especially with everyone playing top tier these days, it's hard to get experience against every matchup..i was also told by people here that in the future i shouldn't counterpick characters for a matchup i don't know

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

edit: what i said earlier about assuming he'll jump out and just jumping to aerial is technically wrong..you should just wait and react...if he falls further you can fsmash and a jump out won't save him..and if he jumps then you react and aerial.


and when i said don't pressure with full jumped dfairs..you can use it as an approach..but you were using it to follow to closely and stay on the fox so you got grabbed


Anyways, good luck improving your game..it's always a struggle learning to think about what you're doing wrong..it's also devilishly hard in a match to find time to think.

i wish i was still at my brother's point. He said today, "i've given up on going for grabs, because i never get anything off them since you always DI them right:\"

he's getting better but i hope someday i can best out more than just m2, bowser, and kirby against him. If he lives with me next year he'll get better...right now i'm the best on my campus so i get a lot of guests

lol, i had to explain to him how pathetically easy it is to just abuse shield on someone who doesn't incorporate enough grabs into their game or adapt.

also phoenix, to help improve your knowledge of when to use marth's fsmash..my advice would be to find another marth and then try to bait fsmashes and punish..just practice things like baited shields to wavedash grab or jumping out at just the right moment to punish fsmash happy marth's..even trying random air dodges can sometimes work..as you start to understand what makes a marth want to fsmash you'll both get better at baiting opponents and be less likely to overuse it yourself

anyways, i'm never going to get any better unless i get some more competition i think:\ here's to hoping William and mary class of 2011 will be good at melee. Though i'm also going to try training my friends..nothing like better opponents to improve your game.

and don't feel bad about not knowing matchups..just takes time i got ***** by a ganny and i had no clue about that matchup:\ was playing fox and i had heard he countered ganny so i wasn't that worried even though i'd never played a fox vs ganny before...needless to say i was ***** hardcore..i also got ***** in a sheik vs falcon matchup even though i knew the matchup from falcon's side:\ another matchup i'd never really played.

i mean especially with everyone playing top tier these days, it's hard to get experience against every matchup..i was also told by people here that in the future i shouldn't counterpick characters for a matchup i don't know

Yeah, I play Fox as well as Marth. Some say my Fox is better, but I stick with him as my counter pick.

I think i'm going to have to learn to play with Sheik in the future for countering Marths. Never the less, I'm still going to work on that particular match up.

I actually do better against Falco than Fox with Marth. >__>

 

[knightpraetor]

lol, ya that's a really hard choice, notice that a lot of pros just try to learn the matchups with one character so that they get better at those..i'm haivng a hard time deciding whether it's worth learning sheik or not. I can play fox vs sheik and I really don't mind marth vs sheik matchups as much as people make them out to be hard...as long as I"m the one picking stage at least lol

 

[G@BE]

Sorry crap post....

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

lol, ya that's a really hard choice, notice that a lot of pros just try to learn the matchups with one character so that they get better at those..i'm haivng a hard time deciding whether it's worth learning sheik or not. I can play fox vs sheik and I really don't mind marth vs sheik matchups as much as people make them out to be hard...as long as I"m the one picking stage at least lol

Lol, Marth Story anyone? =P

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Knightpraetor, I'm glad to see another marth board regular that thinks about his critquing and actually provides insight rather than useless info.

I don't believe theres any reason for me to bother watching and criting, he covered plenty.

 

[flaco]

Marth dittos are very dangers cuz there are soo random my friend Take Ken and azen example Ken lost to anzen in z mrth ditto not cuz anzen use it better that him is just that it was random thats all.

 

[Omega_Star]

Ooo, you could've owned him at the end of that Marth ditto with an Fsmash. Whenever you've got someone in a vulnerable position like that at the edge, always Fsmash.

Fthrow to Fsmash is also a good way to open up a match in Marth dittos, though there's a chance that they'll react quick enough to DI the throw.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Omega, there are much better ways to open up a match ditto match.

I didn't watch your videos as my dial up is giving me problems and knight handled it well enough I believe but.

Standard marth ditto tactic: (if you didn't know) Grab, f-throw (only once, marths with half a brain will di down and break the f-throw chaingrab) Grab again to upthrow..now look, you are below marth and hes got a decent high..you're in the best possible position against marth as you can combo with the up-tilt then take to the air when you like it, perferably after the marth uses his second jump in an attempt to escape to insure that stock is gone.