Help for Case Regarding 13 Stage FLSS System

[Cheap Shot]

Hey guys, I wanted to post this in the Stage Legality thread but I just found out that it's now closed. I do not want this thread to be cluttered with condescending arguments on the merit of using this system but rather, I'm looking for help to craft an argument that can help sway my region's leaders in allowing my tournaments to be sanctioned while using this.

As background, the region I'm in and run tournaments in is Inland Empire, California, the page of which can be found here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/IESM4SH/

When I originally approached them about sanctioning my upcoming tournament series, they were all for it considering our scene is fairly limited in the amount of local tournaments we have. However, a few weeks worth of tournaments later I get this message from one of the heads of the IE Sm4sh scene:

"Hey glad you guys had a good turn out yesterday! I wanted to let you know that I can no longer sanction rcc clubs events towards the IE PR if you guys do not change your stage list. If you guys chose to leave everything how it is then by all means lol i had a lot of peopke messaging me to complain about the stage list just,and how they didn't want to get janked out. So just a heads up bro."

Now on the list, I have the following stages available using FLSS with three bans and DSR during counterpick phases:

Battlefield
Final Destination/Omega Stages
Town and City
Duck Hunt
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Dreamland 64
Mario Circuit
Skyloft
Delfino Plaza
Wuhu Island
Peach's Castle 64
Umbra Clock Tower

Though it may not be possible to convince them to allow my tournaments to be sanctioned again, I would like to draw up as many compelling arguments as possible in an attempt to sway them. They're pretty conservative on their stage lists, usually using the S/CP system with your standard 7 stages. Any discussion done toward this goal would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[ぱみゅ]

Sanctioned? Are there CONSEQUENCES for using a certain format? Really?

While I'd like more info about that, I'll try to answer the question.

Keeping the system, the list I'd use for 13 stages would be:

Spoiler

1. Final Destination/Omegas
2. Battlefield
3. Town and City
4. Smashville
5. Lylat Cruise
6. Duckhunt
7. Dreamland
8. Umbra Clock Tower
9. Skyloft
10. Wuhu Island
11. Castle Siege
12. Halberd
13. Pokémon Stadium 2
Other Options: Delfino, Peach's Castle, Kalos Pokémon League

I've used that and the only problem I've had is that players usually don't remember the stages they've stroke.

Convincing people to use a different (although way more optimal) system is difficult. VERY difficult.

Right now in my community I had to compromise and narrow the list to 7 stages:

Spoiler

1. Final Destination/Omegas
2. Battlefield/Dreamland (this is important)
3. Town and City
4. Smashville
5. Lylat Cruise
6. Duckhunt
7. Umbra Clock Tower
The merge of Dreamland and Battlefield is important because we have less stages, so having both comes as redundant, specially at the striking phase.
Striking order is 2-3-1.

Funny enough, this current system I'm using STILL has the problem of people not remembering the strikes they've made.




Oh yeah, and sorry about the Stage Discussion thing. I may or not make a new thread for all your stage-related needs.

 

[Gawain]

I can't imagine anyone wanting to play on stages like Mario Circuit and Wuhu. I know I would never do it. I don't see what's so bad about using a small list of stages, it makes gameplay more focused. After all what's the point of a PR if you have events with dramatically different rulesets?

 

[Cheap Shot]

The main issue for not being sanctioned is that my tournaments won't count toward the PR and the reasons for not being sanctioned are stated above.

While I understand the need for consistency, it becomes a moot point when locals do what majors do and majors do what locals do. I wanted to introduce a breath of fresh air into our scene where stages that seem to be perfectly good go untested. I do have some really good players that enjoy my stage list, such as ImHip, so I have that going for me. Most tournaments in the area have at least a small variation on the stage lists and one sanctioned tournament has random stage selection as the rule (the random stages are tournament legal though).

 

[ぱみゅ]

I can't imagine anyone wanting to play on stages like Mario Circuit and Wuhu. I know I would never do it. I don't see what's so bad about using a small list of stages, it makes gameplay more focused. After all what's the point of a PR if you have events with dramatically different rulesets?

The right set of 13 stages stills allows competition and consistently getting the highest-skill player to win.

The difference is that more stages add more skills to be measured such as stage presence, positioning, awareness, memorizing timings, patterns, and special kinds of patience.

I do not think either is objectively better.

But I think adding more not-broken stages do not affect healthy competition.

Let me rephrase it, what is wrong with a large list of stages that are not broken?

 

[teluoborg]

Guys let's not turn this into a stage list size argument, that would be deviating from the main topic.

C Cheap Shot
You aren't wrong for wanting to host tournaments with such a huge stage list as I'm pretty sure it attracts people that like it (not me, but I understand other people with different tastes exist and I respect that). But they aren't wrong either for not wanting your tournaments to count in their power ranking.

You yourself agree that what you propose is different, so you should understand that the IE scene that wants consistency in their power ranking refuse to count your tournaments that deviates from their standards.
I don't see the problem in not being counted into the PR, are there some other advantages that come with being included in the scene and that you could lose should you refuse to change your stage list ? If yes then THIS is dumb.

 

[Cheap Shot]

It's primarily something that will likely diminish my attendance and it disallows for a bi-weekly in two different cities that don't have anything as far as a scene goes to go without representation. Other tournaments that count toward the PR do different things with their stage lists as I've mentioned earlier, such as one of them doing a random stage selection.

 

[teluoborg]

Are you sure that it would diminish your attendance or is it just a feeling ? If it's just a feeling then it might not have any influence at all and your problem might not even exist.

"and it disallows for a bi-weekly in two different cities" Can you be more specific with that sentence ? Does it mean that if you don't change your stage list you won't have the right to host tournaments anymore or am I misreading it ?

What are the other stage lists like ? If they are really variable from a tournament to another you can point out the lack of consistency to the organizers

Also would you make a concession in order to stay in the scene ? Even for a stage liberal there are some very offensive terrains in your list (namely Mario Circuit and Skyloft with their numerous hitboxes and Peach's Castle with its camping promoting layout).

 

[Charey]

Maybe ask if there is a particular stage that is causing issues for PR? If it's an objection to one or two of the stages you could try swapping them for a different stage to keep the format.

 

[Cheap Shot]

Are you sure that it would diminish your attendance or is it just a feeling ? If it's just a feeling then it might not have any influence at all and your problem might not even exist.

"and it disallows for a bi-weekly in two different cities" Can you be more specific with that sentence ? Does it mean that if you don't change your stage list you won't have the right to host tournaments anymore or am I misreading it ?

What are the other stage lists like ? If they are really variable from a tournament to another you can point out the lack of consistency to the organizers

Also would you make a concession in order to stay in the scene ? Even for a stage liberal there are some very offensive terrains in your list (namely Mario Circuit and Skyloft with their numerous hitboxes and Peach's Castle with its camping promoting layout).

Hey, sorry for being vague. I know for a fact that many of the better players in the region almost exclusively go to locals that count toward PR. I do have a feeling that others will follow suit, however.

As for the cities, I meant that our region is fairly sparse with many small to medium cities, many of which have no representation toward the PR. As I'm hosting in two such cities, I think it'd behoove our scene to not disenfranchise these areas.

As for stage lists, since the two main tournament series began using the EVO ruleset, I've seen other events that only say "only legal stages" which is a troubling mindset TBH. That said, I have seen some deviations and one tournament still uses the old stage list with Castle Seige, Delfino, etc. and with Umbra.

 

[teluoborg]

Well looks like you're being bullied out of your choices.
I don't see this getting resolved without some kind of concession, from my point of view you have a few choice :
-stick with your stage list and get removed from the PR. Even if your tournaments don't attract the top players you'll still have attendees, just not the big names.
-remove some or all the stages that are considered "problematic". Open the discussion with the scene about a 11 or 9 stage list
-do it the Mii player way and try to appeal to the public. Refuse to host tournaments until you get the organizers to accept your tournaments in the PR again and make sure to explain to all the local players why you're doing this, ask them to rally your cause with some kind of petition. I personally advise against this solution because it's the most tedious and most likely to end badly, but if you refuse the previous 2 I don't see anything else.