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help against fox

flaco

flaco

The Terminator
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
3,105
Location
Springfield Mass
Well I went to mass madness 16 and zoso ***** the crap out my marth I need some help here

All that got me was l cancel to shine combo

I know fox is the **** but I need some help getting over that any tips :urg:
 
Havokbringer

Havokbringer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
1,328
Location
El Sobrante,CA
Well SHFFLed fairs do great against foxes to either bait them or pressure their shield.

When you bait them its usually to grab them so you would need to practice dashing away immediatly after to a pivot grab if they chase after you, if not throwing in up tilts or jabs discourages them from trying to attack from out of their shield and could give you a grab later on.

If they like to come at you from the platforms try to predict where they will jump to next and throw an up air at that spot, uptilt also works great if they come down from the highest platform alot.

If they have you in a drill to shine you always want to DI away to make it as hard as possible for them to grab or continue their combo.

If you react fast enough you should have the Fox running around scared of getting hit or grabbed instead of the other way around.Also make sure you're not always on the attack because it puts you in danger of making a mistake and getting grabbed and stuff. Basically be patient and wait for the grabs.
 
Europhoria

Europhoria

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
1,476
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Just shield a lot... then punish with whatever. IF they mess up grab or dash attack. But you'll probably need to learn how to WD out of the shield pressure into whatever the situation calls for.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
1,710
Location
Canada
Get technical. Foxes get scared when they see that and they make mistakes.

What you do depends on how far Fox is away from you because your spacing moves will depend on these. If he is laser camping, dash dance closer, or use shields to approach him. Don't worry about taking 12% in laser, worry about making a stupid move and getting grabbed or upsmashed. Approach him, but don't let the lasers get to you.

If he's about 2 fsmash lengths away, you might consider SH, wait, and fall with a fair. That way, if they try to approach, they will get hit by the fair. If they don't come in, just do the fair anyway, poke, and jab out of the poke using IASA frames. Many foxes will try to dash attack you as you do these moves, but if you space well they will get hit by one of the moves-- you should not get grabbed.

If he is about 1 fsmash length away, he's probably going to nair you or he's waiting for a grab. Be ready to crouchcancel grab a nair, or do a particularly long dash dance and turn around grab them from the nair. If you know he's going to full hop nair, just turn around utilt and grab him. Fox has to be utterly frightened of getting grabbed, so each time you do get the grab, you have to punish him intensely.

If he is right beside you, grab might not come out fast enough. Retreat with a fair and see if it combos into a grab. Don't be afraid to WD backwards and forward smash every once in a while. If you don't know what to do, just sh nair, don't fastfall.

Here's a recent vid of what I do against Fox... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdTb9dgRTMg
But if your Fox is more aggressive, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX6rxmKRjaw

Hope that helped.
 
M

MexicanBJ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
211
Diakonos's marth is **** do you mind explaining why not to ff the nairs?
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
1,710
Location
Canada
Well, because they expect you to FF it. So they position themselves to grab you out of it. Then when you get grabbed, Marth screams. If you don't FF, often they'll try to grab and they'll get hit by the very last few frames of the nair, and it knocks them over. If you know they aren't going to run into it, then FF it, but otherwise fastfall isn't necessary for spacing, because most people think they can sneak an attack in before you hit the ground. Not true. Once your opponent wises up to it, you have to start dashing away as soon as you hit the ground though. The good thing is you can decide last second whether you want to fastfall, so you can choose which one you want.

M2K often does nair -> immediate dash away. Then he pivots the grab.
 
Cactuar

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
Diakonos said:
Well, because they expect you to FF it. So they position themselves to grab you out of it. Then when you get grabbed, Marth screams. If you don't FF, often they'll try to grab and they'll get hit by the very last few frames of the nair, and it knocks them over. If you know they aren't going to run into it, then FF it, but otherwise fastfall isn't necessary for spacing, because most people think they can sneak an attack in before you hit the ground. Not true. Once your opponent wises up to it, you have to start dashing away as soon as you hit the ground though. The good thing is you can decide last second whether you want to fastfall, so you can choose which one you want.

M2K often does nair -> immediate dash away. Then he pivots the grab.
Click to expand...
M2K's thing is to nair and fast fall when you just barely land in autocancel frames, then dash away. It is very hard to punish as the move autocancels just barely after the second hit comes out. Autocancels are too good. :laugh:
 
Roche_CL

Roche_CL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
410
i always look for a distraction of spacies, sometimes they forgot marths gimp potencial and attack you near the edge, downgrab and goodbye, try to bait them for it for easy kills, people tend not to be too carefull on first stocks, and you can abuse that ;)
watch m2k vs eggz on 2.02 and 2.06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX6rxmKRjaw

but then you can't be doing it all the time beacuse they will see that you're trying to gimp and will start camping and stuff, just look for the right time, and dont be so predictable.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
1,710
Location
Canada
Cactuar said:
M2K's thing is to nair and fast fall when you just barely land in autocancel frames, then dash away. It is very hard to punish as the move autocancels just barely after the second hit comes out. Autocancels are too good. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Haha yeah. Also, SW taught me something cool at tourneyplay. You know on Pokemon Stadium, where Ken instituted the mountain drop down dair, immediate up B? On the side of the stage? You can do falling nair from there, it immediately cancels, and you can up+b. It's next to perfect. :)
 
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