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Help against Fox & Falco

L33teHaxor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
124
Location
Meriden, CT
Does anyone have any tips for fighting Fox & Falco. I can pull off some nice combos but I know I can do much better.

Or are they such bad matchups for y.link that if your up against a good Fox & Falco theres no way you could win?
 

Chip.

you know what to do
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,884
Location
Spokane, Washington
I heard from many that Fox is Young Link's biggest counter in the game and Falco is the second. Notice how no one wanted to post on this thread >_>? that's because they're truly afraid of these two.

Now, honestly I don't really find a huge counter in the game for Young Link. Maybe it's just me?. I don't know, but I'm lucky enough to know how to fight top tier and make them say "... how do you fight against such a good Young Link... ****!" and stuff.

Personally, Falco isn't a counter at all, bad matchup at most. What does Falco have against Young Link that he doesn't against everyone else? Young Link in fact does better against him than most charachters because of he spam back.

Fox is a bit harder since he can apply so much pressure and you can't spam back at him as well as you could right?


I'll try to upload some vids soon of me fighting against Space animals and kicking their ***. I'll give my advice to you on that thread and I'll teach everyone a trick in fighting them as well ;).


-Chip
 

L33teHaxor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
124
Location
Meriden, CT
Thanx and I've noticed that I can fight a Falco better than a Fox. I just wanted to ask because a lot of people main space animals and I needed some advice for fighting them but I guess it's because they are bad matchups for y.link.

The only reason why I think I can fight a Falco better is because they don't use the shine to kill unlike Fox. Which is how they get most of their kills.

But I'm just asking for a little advice so I can fight against them better.

Chip hopefully your vids will help me out.
 

Laijin

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
5,848
Location
Rylai the Crystal Maiden's Igloo
Seriously. Fox and Falco are not that bad of a counter for Young Link. There are seriously far worst counters. They do have an advantage, but its very slight. Its not as bad as people say it is.

Keep back with Projectiles. If they are shooting lasers at you, then they are vulnerable to get hit by a projectile. You'll have to jump over the lasers since they stop projectiles. Your neutral air has more priority than all of their aerials.

Now...here are the most important parts:

-Dont approach them yourself. Make them come to you. Most characters will make an aerial approach. This is good since they will always get hit by a bomb by doing this. During this stun, you are able to come in for an attack. If you can follow up with some other attacks..then go for it.

-Young Link is dead if he gets gayed out by Fox's shine. But lucky for you, this is very easy to counter. If you see a Fox running out to shine you, repeatedly tap A and you will most likely neutral air them in the face and send them back. If this causes you to be too low from the stage, do a hookshot recovery or something.

-Fox and Falco are very easy to kill. Since they are light, but fall fast..your main kill move is limited to mostly down smash. Down air and up air will kill at really high %s. But Down smash will send them pretty far at around 90 or 100.

-They are very easy to edgeguard against. If you have enough time to pull out of a bomb or if you alreadt have one in your hand, just simply jump and drop it at the ledge. If they are below you, they will pop up after they hit the bomb leave you open for a free down aerial or n-air. Setting up a down tilt spike is beyond easy if you dont have enough time for a bomb. If they are phantasming, just simply n-air them in the face and force them to have to to try and sweetspot. Once you do that, just do what I said above

-Comboing them is'nt all that bad. You can normally get two up smashes on them. If they dont tech, its easy to follow them and attack. Juggling with up air is also beyond easy to do, especially with platforms

-If Fox is coming at you with a up aerial, Young Link for some reason is hard to hit with a sweet spot. He will actually miss the sweetspot repeatedly. So this ideal for DI-ing away from him and escaping death with stages that have low ceilings. If you are way above him and you know he is coming up with an up Aerial. You can either meet him with a n-air or a down aerial FTW.

-And finallly, learn to projectile spam properly. You must learn how to run and avoid your opponent while constantly throwing crap at them. They cant get near you to attack, and your constantly racking up damage. If they try to reflect, just simply jump over them and drop a bomb above them. They will suffer from the shine lag and you get a free hit in.

So no. Falco and Fox are not hard to fight at all. I'd say YL's biggest counters are Marth(since he can kill really easy and eat ALL your projectiles with his sword with ease), Ganondorf(cause he kills super easily and is hard to kill) and Zelda(Really hard match up >__>).

I'll have a bunch of vids of me fighting a bunch of foxes(since thats like half of my matches >__>) up pretty soon so you can see how I do it.
 

L33teHaxor

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
124
Location
Meriden, CT
Thanks laijin I've been trying to put some of that into my fighting style. And I agree with you about Marth and Zelda being one of Y. Links biggest counters but i disagreee with Ganon because the projectiles mess him up badly and you can sheild grab a lot of his attacks before they hit you.

And get some of the vids up soon so I can observe a way to beat fox.
 

Kanzaki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Messages
2,272
Location
Orange County, CA
I say his counters are Marth... as Laijin said... Ganon... he'll kill you in like 3 hits :o... Falcon... he's a freaken projectile him self, flying knees!.. And Zelda as well, neutral-b to reflect projectiles back at you, and the toe is strong =[
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,478
Fox & Falco = ouch

I finally updated my guide a bit and added coverage for Fox and Falco. I'll post that text here:

Buzz said:
Basically, it was this very matchup that got me into investigating playing alternate characters in tournaments (surprisingly it wasn't Sheik). There is not much to say here except that you will lose unless you are clearly more skilled than your opponent. Reason? Falco can short-hop laser you. To make matters worse, Falco can jump so high that there isn't much hope in trying to travel over the top of it. Since Young Link cannot duck under this nightmare either, you are completely doomed on Final Destination. Platforms are your only hope in this fight. Now that I've eliminated all your optimism for this match, let's begin, shall we?

You have to be extremely clever to win this fight. You cannot keep your distance because Falco will send lasers over to ruin your day. You have to move toward him. Avoid lasers as best you can and pull out a bomb. Good Falco players know not to use their down + B move to actually reflect projectiles (despite that being its original intent). However, if you can frustrate Falco with enough projectiles, oftentimes they become too tempted. If Falco reflects a projectile, he is stunned for a moment. It is a small moment, so that is why I recommended getting in close whenever possible. You need to exploit that opportunity whether it be grabbing him or down-smashing him off the edge.

If Falco starts attempting pillars, shield and roll. Young Link's roll is pretty slow, but it's really the safest option in that you are invincible for part of it. Shield until the shine barrage ceases and then roll forward. Your best bet at this point is to shuffle Young Link's up-air; it cuts through Falco's down-air. However, if you are recovering, make sure that you don't move too close to the edge when using your up + B third jump. Falco's down-air will cut right through that. Hover back from the ledge a tad to where only Young Link's Kokiri sword hits the ledge. Just before beginning your descent, smash forward to DI over and grab the ledge.

Thank goodness Falco is incredibly easy to edge-guard. His fire bird recovery is very short, so he does not have many options as far as trajectory is concerned. Usually a good edge-hog will suffice. If not, use bombs to mess him up (the fire bird usually cuts through arrows or boomerangs).

I used to believe that Fox was just as hard as Falco, but suddenly it dawned on me: matches against Fox are much faster than against Falco but far easier. Fox's lasers have no stun factor. That in itself gives Young Link a fighting chance. In addition to that, Young Link falls over when shined by Fox, so he cannot be infinitely wave-shined (unlike his older counterpart).

Fox is going to be in your face pretty much the whole time. He can sit back and fire lasers, but Young Link can still advance; the only caution here is that bombs are influenced by Fox's lasers, so never throw a bomb while a stream of lasers are coming at you. Fox is very good at close combat. His shine will be your undoing in most cases. It is imperative that you litter the area with projectiles. Do not fall prey to Fox's mind games. Just send in a projectile or three to do the job. Shuffling Young Link's neutral-air will prove quite beneficial. If Fox likes to drill-shine (shuffle his down-air into his down + B), shield until the nightmare is over, then shuffle up-airs.

The one beauty of fighting Fox is that he is a fast-faller. This makes him easy to combo/juggle. If you can catch Fox in an up-smash, most of the time you can follow up with another up-smash (if he is at low damage). You can also semi-chain grab Fox. Young Link's up-throw can be connected to multiple up-throws since the natural reaction for Fox is to shield. Don't overdo it; finish the last up-throw with a down-smash or double forward-smash!
 

Chip.

you know what to do
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,884
Location
Spokane, Washington
Good stuff Laijin :), I couldn't of said it better my self.

woah, woah, my biggest Young Link counter is quite different actually.

I'll be honest, I don't find a SUPER hard counter in the game at ALL.

But I guess, with Young Link, everyone has their own personal set of counters. I think that Marth is pretty much an even matchup with sliiight favor twords Marth. Marth's only REAL advantage that Marth has is the tipper of his F-smash and weapon-cancelling and range and what not. But I mean.... Young Link can combo him soooooooo well ^_^ ^_^!!!! Simple d-throw->utilt->utilt->uair->uair->uair is a 50-60% combo hit. Even with weapon-canceling, if you projectile overdose him, your gonna drown the mother ****er with heavy damage. And Bomb Plant finishes the icing on the cake (or whenever you can get a dair) killing him at a 100% at FD or lower on smaller stages. Also, remember to mindgame quite a lot and please, do watch your defensive tactics so you don't stumble into tippers :p.

Ganon, yeah, but Young Link can kick his *** with proper and sufficient spaming...blah..blah

Who's Zelda?

EDIT: Young Link, yeah, but Ganon can kick his *** with spaced fairs and sufficient space gaping between projectiles...blah...blah
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
10,478
Nope. Ganondorf ***** Young Link. It's a real shame you weren't able to play Laughing Man in his prime (he lived in your area before going to Texas). He was a Ganondorf main, and he proved how little Ganon cares about projectiles.
 

Chip.

you know what to do
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
1,884
Location
Spokane, Washington
Wait, what was I just saying!? My post states "Young Link can kick his ***"? My apoligies, I must not of been completely thinking at the time, but Buzz is correct, Young Link is a murder victim to ganon.

Sorry that post was made at like 1:00 in the morning... but then again, so is this one! :O


Good Ganondorf's are really hard to fight, esp. when they can get in your spacing gaps so easily.

It also hurts that he can edgegaurd the sweetspot with his uair which makes your chances of survivel drop down VVVVVVV very low

and that he can kill you at like 50%




When I make posts when I'm tired, I would make as much sense as if I were ever stoned ( I don't though ^_^)..... I hope that this still does. I really need to stop doing this
 

Hanki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Messages
254
Location
Prescott Valley, Arizona
Falco is almost an easy matchup if you know what you're doing. Everytime they are coming down from on top of you they do D-air because it out-prioritizes every move in the game, except Young Link's U-air, you can hit them atleast 6 times in a row with that at a lower % this makes the matchup way easier, just remember everytime he is coming down, spam U-air
 
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