Hax Dashing and Character Chain Grabs

[JPK]

Sorry if there is a another thread discussing this but I've been reading the ganon can do a fully invincible hax dash in melee and I was wondering if ganon can do this in pm as well? also does anyone know or have a link to which characters ganon can chain grab and to what percent and if not does anyone know how I can test this in lab.

 

[CORY]

no idea on the former, but if you want to start testing it, go into debug and use frame advance. when you grab the ledge you have to wait 8 frames before you can drop it and jump. (so, grab ledge, advance 8 times, then hold down and you'll ledge drop the next frame. on further thought, this might be 7 frames and you can drop on the 7th? it's easy to figure it out, though...)

i couldn't tell you how long you'd need to drop and how long you'd need to wait after the jump to get above the stage in an ideal position, however. you'll have to lab that ;x make sure to turn on hitboxes, though, and if you stay blue the entire time you run through the motions frame by frame, it's possible.

as for testing chain grabs, you'll still just use debug for frame advance and hitboxes on. when you put someone into hitstun, watch their character's orange overlay. the frame before they can act, the orange gets a bit brighter/more opaque. the next frame, they can act. that doesn't necessarily mean they can escape, but it does mean they can start a double jump/etc... from that point on. you'll have to grind proper di's hardcore, but with frame advance that's pretty easy to setup properly, at least.

 

[HiroProtagonist]

Now that PM isn' updating anymore its probably time for us to lab the chaingrabs and establish definitive percent ranges for everyone

 

[Squints~.~]

Any way we can split up the work? I'm sure one person could grind it out against CPUs but including DI could take forever unless we have multiple people working on it. We could just work on it and post as we see fit, or attempt to organize it a bit and break up the characters. It doesn't really matter, but Hiro is totally right. Other characters still laugh at our grab, we can't have that!!!

Now that PM isn' updating anymore its probably time for us to lab the chaingrabs and establish definitive percent ranges for everyone

 

[CORY]

We could just work on it and post as we see fit

i'd say go with this. if you're wanting to do stuff, say you're working on some set of characters, then go do it. i just finished finals, so i'm gonna work on cosplay stuff for a little bit then i have some other labbing things i want to work on, so i probably won't help with grinding out specifics on this for a while ;x

and while they may laugh at our grab, it's just because of **** range : p they know to fear the throws!

 

[Jazzy Jamboree]

While I don't believe the haxdash is quite as safe, I'm almost certain that the no impact land from ledge is either very weak or nonexistent in invincibility frames. Ganon has a different midair jump in PM that requires him to dip slightly lower for no impact land which loses a bunch of frames (source). I'm not really positive about ledgedash/hax dash, but I don't think it's significant. Even in melee I think it was only a few frames of invincibility (source). On the bright side, the midair jump increase lets ganon ledgehop onto stage with any aerial, which hugely bolsters his ability to get back on stage or edgeguard. Now that I think about it, I think what you are thinking of is actually ganon's invincible ledge stall (source).

edit: also, off the top of my head, here are the chars ganon has significant chaingrabs on (may not be complete):

wario, bowser, yoshi???, dong, falcon, wolf, fox, falco, sheik, link, ganon, lucario, pika?, zard, ZSS, lucas, MK, D3, Ike, marth(ish), roy, rob???, snake, sonic???

cg to **** tier: bowser, wolf, fox, falco, sheik, lucas, mk?
cg hard: dong, falcon, link, zard, zss, d3, ganon, lucario
good cg: wario, yoshi, Ike, roy, rob?, sonic?, pika?
meh cg: marth, maybe some others
**** tier cg: ness, probably others.

obviously this list kind of sucks because there are a bunch I'm not sure of. The **** tier CGs like on ness last until like 15% max and don't really get you better followups anyway/you risk getting naired.