Having some trouble with certain match-ups

[Karrat]

Hello fellow Lucas mains. Recently I have had some problems fighting Ryu, Luigi, and Mewtwo. I could just switch to cptn. Falcon and have an easier time with things, but i like to think of this as a challenge. Do you guys have any approach tips or general strategies for the opponents?

 

[DaDavid]

Well, for both Ryu and Mewtwo you can probably force them to approach since you can just suck up whatever they would try to space you out with. Once they make that approach then a few well timed grabs can lead to decent percents and eventually kills if you keep up and back throw fresh. Of course that's sort of assuming that they never adapt to your strategy. Might be easier to give advice if I knew what exactly trips you up about the match up?

 

[Karrat]

I don't think its anything super specific I am still working on my technique and not getting flustered when I start loosing. I rely a lot on move interrupting attacks like a short hop nair, pk fires, or sweet spot fair. with ryu and little mac it seems like they have a bunch of frames that ignore the damage they just received and then they finish the move anyways. I've been knocked out of a couple tournaments this way.

 

[DaDavid]

Well I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're doing but yeah, you're gonna want to mix in some grabs and zairs in order to keep them guessing. I will say though, I play my brother's Ryu a lot and nairs into up tilts typically work on him just fine. Not sure if he just doesn't know he can escape those or if you're not trying them, but, yeah. Little Mac should be pretty easy though if you just bait him near the ledge, backthrow him off the stage and edgeguard with PK Thunder or even by chasing him.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Here's some basic stuff


You can outspace and annoy Ryu with Zair and PK Fire, the latter of which can break focus attack. Speaking of Focus attack, Nair and to a lesser extent Dair are godsends because the consecutive hits are fast enough to break the armor and interrupt it before Ryu can react.


Actually, I can't say that much, since I don't struggle much here, but I'll do my best to help out. Honestly, the most troubling thing to overcome in this matchup is confusion because of its reflector status. Try to absorb M2's Shadow Balls or, If you're an absolute madman, reflect it with Fsmash. Remeber, that move is Mario's Cape reflect framewise, give or take 1-2 frames later. M2 is big and light, you won't have that much issue getting him offstage.

 

[lui3k]

i have trouble w certain match ups as well but mine are different I really don't see a problem in dealing with the characters you stated problems with I have big problems with cloud Corin bayonetta and the usual problems for the PK boys like rosalina and villager. if you need tips or help on how to fight those characters you mention let me know maybe we can practice together.

 

[Eisen]

The most important thing is to play Lucas like Lucas. Constantly mix up your approach options, or just don't approach and throw a safe move out like retreating zair/fair/PK fire, FH dair, etc. I also find mixing up fullhop aerials with shorthop ones helps, especially given how mobile Lucas is in the air. It'll make opponents really question what you're opting for -- a read/mixup or fade/fakeout.

Some things I find helpful in a pinch is RAR nair to cross up their shield if they expect something like normal nair and don't react out of shield well. One of Lucas' biggest problems is dealing with getting read and shieldgrabbed on a misspaced aerial. RAR nair puts you behind their shield, and not many characters can punish Lucas from that position, nor will many players be prepared for it.

Once you get your opponent in a disadvantageous position, do not stop going aggro on them until you're reset to neutral or they die, but also keep playing very unexpectedly. Throw in a well-spaced b-reversed magnet or go for a roll read > grab. Or read a sidestep and opt for nair/dsmash, or read a jump and chase with uair/dair/fair depending on the situation. Lots of opponents just crumble when you lower their defensive options via reads and option coverage with Lucas' great mixup tools.

Also, when in doubt in super-close quarters, remember that jab is frame 2 with a FAF of only 20 frames on both jab 1 and 2. This means if you mess up spacing on say, fair, you can FF it and buf jab 1, and depending on whether your opponent drops shield or not, read their reactions to get yourself in a better position. For example, if they stay in shield and you connect with jab 1, you can either do jab 1 > retreat or Jab 1 > shield pressure options, e.g. crossup nair, dair, grab (though the latter is fairly unsafe and slow of course), OR jab 1 > jab 2 > cancel into any of the options I listed a moment ago. Granted, compared to many OOS options, this is fairly unsafe frame wise, but Lucas isn't exactly a frame data god. We gotta work with our mixup tools.

Another thing to remember is that zair eats certain projectiles. I'm fairly certain it eats Luigi's fireball, don't know about Ryu's projectiles, and I think it also eats weaker Mewtwo shadow ball? Also, I think fair can do this, though it's not recommended unless you're dropping down right on top of/in front of a Luigi doing fireball and want to both intercept the fireball and also hit Luigi.

 

[JosePollo]

The most important thing is to play Lucas like Lucas. Constantly mix up your approach options, or just don't approach and throw a safe move out like retreating zair/fair/PK fire, FH dair, etc. I also find mixing up fullhop aerials with shorthop ones helps, especially given how mobile Lucas is in the air. It'll make opponents really question what you're opting for -- a read/mixup or fade/fakeout.

Some things I find helpful in a pinch is RAR nair to cross up their shield if they expect something like normal nair and don't react out of shield well. One of Lucas' biggest problems is dealing with getting read and shieldgrabbed on a misspaced aerial. RAR nair puts you behind their shield, and not many characters can punish Lucas from that position, nor will many players be prepared for it.

Once you get your opponent in a disadvantageous position, do not stop going aggro on them until you're reset to neutral or they die, but also keep playing very unexpectedly. Throw in a well-spaced b-reversed magnet or go for a roll read > grab. Or read a sidestep and opt for nair/dsmash, or read a jump and chase with uair/dair/fair depending on the situation. Lots of opponents just crumble when you lower their defensive options via reads and option coverage with Lucas' great mixup tools.

Also, when in doubt in super-close quarters, remember that jab is frame 2 with a FAF of only 20 frames on both jab 1 and 2. This means if you mess up spacing on say, fair, you can FF it and buf jab 1, and depending on whether your opponent drops shield or not, read their reactions to get yourself in a better position. For example, if they stay in shield and you connect with jab 1, you can either do jab 1 > retreat or Jab 1 > shield pressure options, e.g. crossup nair, dair, grab (though the latter is fairly unsafe and slow of course), OR jab 1 > jab 2 > cancel into any of the options I listed a moment ago. Granted, compared to many OOS options, this is fairly unsafe frame wise, but Lucas isn't exactly a frame data god. We gotta work with our mixup tools.

Another thing to remember is that zair eats certain projectiles. I'm fairly certain it eats Luigi's fireball, don't know about Ryu's projectiles, and I think it also eats weaker Mewtwo shadow ball? Also, I think fair can do this, though it's not recommended unless you're dropping down right on top of/in front of a Luigi doing fireball and want to both intercept the fireball and also hit Luigi.

Going off of this, down tilt is frame 3, interruptible frame 16, which generally leads to more varied follow-ups. You can generally substitute one for the other since the one-frame difference is not that important most of the time.

Zair does beat Hadouken and weak Shadow Balls, as does the sour spot of fair (sweet spot doesn't clank, so it doesn't hit projectiles).

 

[R-Magic]

The most important thing is to play Lucas like Lucas. Constantly mix up your approach options, or just don't approach and throw a safe move out like retreating zair/fair/PK fire, FH dair, etc. I also find mixing up fullhop aerials with shorthop ones helps, especially given how mobile Lucas is in the air. It'll make opponents really question what you're opting for -- a read/mixup or fade/fakeout.

Some things I find helpful in a pinch is RAR nair to cross up their shield if they expect something like normal nair and don't react out of shield well. One of Lucas' biggest problems is dealing with getting read and shieldgrabbed on a misspaced aerial. RAR nair puts you behind their shield, and not many characters can punish Lucas from that position, nor will many players be prepared for it.

Once you get your opponent in a disadvantageous position, do not stop going aggro on them until you're reset to neutral or they die, but also keep playing very unexpectedly. Throw in a well-spaced b-reversed magnet or go for a roll read > grab. Or read a sidestep and opt for nair/dsmash, or read a jump and chase with uair/dair/fair depending on the situation. Lots of opponents just crumble when you lower their defensive options via reads and option coverage with Lucas' great mixup tools.

Also, when in doubt in super-close quarters, remember that jab is frame 2 with a FAF of only 20 frames on both jab 1 and 2. This means if you mess up spacing on say, fair, you can FF it and buf jab 1, and depending on whether your opponent drops shield or not, read their reactions to get yourself in a better position. For example, if they stay in shield and you connect with jab 1, you can either do jab 1 > retreat or Jab 1 > shield pressure options, e.g. crossup nair, dair, grab (though the latter is fairly unsafe and slow of course), OR jab 1 > jab 2 > cancel into any of the options I listed a moment ago. Granted, compared to many OOS options, this is fairly unsafe frame wise, but Lucas isn't exactly a frame data god. We gotta work with our mixup tools.

Another thing to remember is that zair eats certain projectiles. I'm fairly certain it eats Luigi's fireball, don't know about Ryu's projectiles, and I think it also eats weaker Mewtwo shadow ball? Also, I think fair can do this, though it's not recommended unless you're dropping down right on top of/in front of a Luigi doing fireball and want to both intercept the fireball and also hit Luigi.

This quote makes a really great point. Mix up is the basis of Lucas's playstyle. He doesn't have any options that are so good that they're spammable but he does have an abundance of options that are excellent options if the opponent is expecting some other option to be selected.

This goes goes for approaches, zoning, recovery, and even edge guarding. Use these tools to disrupt each facet of your opponent's game plan

 

[REKLAN]

I've had trouble dealing with sword characters, seems like range and disjoint makes it hard for me to approach. Any tricks to deal with some traditional swordie tactics? I'm not a huge fan of zoning with pk fire and zair, but if it's the handiest strategy, I'll give it a try.

 

[PKBeam]

if you refuse to zone swordfighters, the best answers you have are non-aggressive, and occasionally spaced Fairs.
also, don't approach if it's not necessary. if you have a 70% lead on an Ike, let him come to you.