Has Smash Bros. lost its Competative Edge?

[PokemonLegacy]

Melee is Great, Brawl is greater-er; that is what Sakurai has implied to us. Brawl IS noobified and has less ATs, but did Melee have Stagebuilder? No. Did Melee have Snake & Sonic as PCs? No. Did Melee have Stickers, Nostalgia induced Assist Trophies, Wi-Fi, & the SSE? No, no, no, & NO! Dont whine just because ATs are gone.
1.Theyre never completely gone.
2.All those competetive play Utube vids didnt have ATs, but that didnt stop them from making them!
If this what you want to believe, then fine. But in the end, youre only Bull****ting yourself.
Brawl will be played just as much as melee, if not more! And don't get me started on advanced techs.
If your this serious of a gamer, make new ones! Represent!! Lol sry had to do that...


-=okemonLegacy:=-

 

[El Cancel]

you still like melee...

haha.

 

[Superstarmario]

Hey, guess what guys. Your opinions don't decide the future.

Even if I'mone of these flaming asshats going "brol iz gunna b teh best gam evur!"

It's utterly ridiculous to think that someone needs to wait 8 years to say "Okay, I don't like this game".

Truth be told though, as others have said, give it some time. Hyrule Temple will obviously be banned, and we'll reflex teching so lame Falco players will find some other broken tactic (they always do). Pity about Snake though. He's joined Olimar, Zamus, and Ivysuar in the characters with crappy recovories due to the Brawl's new system.

Point is, again, give Brawl some time. Honestly I've seen quite a few things I don't like about Brawl. But I've seen a lot I do like about it too. The pros outweigh the cons.

 

[Kr3w]

I have a question for you...

 

[Ichida]

You have GOT to be ****ing KIDDING me.

Okay I guess you all can consider me on of these guys:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149/Gh3ttoman/messageboards.jpg

You lost all credibility the instant you posted this, first off.

But I don’t Care.

Oh, good.

I am saying much skill has been taken out of the game.

See that sticky up there? The one labelled "New Discoveries/Techniques?" TRY READING IT.

I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0 (I guess)

Then go back to Melee 1.0. <.<

I understand that the game is different, but I have yet to see any long chain of combos like we used to see. Those were the things that many of use strived for. The “Ken Combo” the “Infinite Shine” long combos like that where great to watch and be a part of, on one side of it.

THE. GAME. IS. NOT. EVEN. OUT. HERE. YET.

This next statement in no way compared Halo to smash brothers! Even though I did precisely that!

Fixed.

Now that many characters are balanced, everyone falls at the same speed, L canceling is removed to eliminate most combos, there are no more moves to be extremely aware of like shieks death punch or peaches down smash. Tourneys will most likely die down soon, and so will the game. I’m almost certain that this game cant really be played competitively, which is what keeps games alive longer than the first few months they are released.

One thing you need to learn to realize, is that ANY multiplayer game can be played competitively. Just because the mechanics are tweaked to better suit newbies, you go and dismiss the game entirely as non-competitive? Who the bloody **** do you think you are?! And I'll have you know that not only CAN is be played competitively, but I myself am already involved in four separate planned tournaments, one of which is at a local anime and gaming convention. So seriously, recede back into your basement and play Melee some more.

You're comparing a game that just recently came out to a game that has been out for years and then going on to say that you believe Brawl may not be as competetive?

A game that is not even out in ENGLISH yet. Christ, GM, give it at least a month in English before you whine about it.

I don't agree. i'm glad the advanced techniques were removed.

Not entirely true. For all the ATs that were removed, new ones are being discovered every day.

'I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0' - Ghettoman

'I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0' - Ghettoman
'I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0' -Ghettoman

\end thread.

How ironic, the post most devoid of an individual comment speaks the most truthful message of this entire thread. XD

Simply put, I don't give a f*** if melee competitive players don't translate over to brawl. There will still be groups of people willing to get together and play brawl regardless as well as those who will play it for the next 6 years.

YES. Exactly right.

LMAO. Well deserved.

Finally, to all whining about the game speed, I provide a solution:

See where it says "SPEED?" Have fun and shut up.

 

[staindgrey]

You know the main reason that old Melee video seems so slow? They aren't L-canceling so their attacks are super laggy. Case in point-- if people hadn't realized the opportunities that L-canceling could present to the game it would never have been competitive like it has been for so many years. The problems that face Brawl without l-canceling are exactly the same problems that face Melee without it and Smash 64 without it.

Brawl WILL have a competitive scene, of course it will, and of course it will be fun, but anyone thinking the game will reach anywhere near Melee's level of depth and competition simply doesn't realize how stupidly, accidentally deep Melee turned out to be.

Here's what I find wrong with this overused point about "depth". When talking about the professional or extremely competitive scene- the one where you basically fight 1 on 1 on Final Destination your whole life- the only "depth" I ever saw involved 5 or 6 overused characters with overused moves. I find it amazing that I seem to be the only one that thinks Brawl will have an IMMENSELY more competitive movement, simply because, as of now, everyone seems usable. I know it's early, but so far it seems that no one but Yoshi (again) has some huge flaw that keeps him or her un-tournament-worthy. This will really, really spice up the competitive scene when you're not fighting a million Foxes and Sheiks over and over and over again (which made me mad, because Sheik was my favorite character to use. But if too many other people chose her, I'd refuse to play as her and I'd choose someone else).

But that's only competitively- you know, the smaller fraction of the game's audience. I love the fact that Brawl finally has a great 1P mode, and it boasts even MORE unlockables than Melee did, and Melee seemed to set the standard for the whole 6 years that it was out.

If you don't like the format of Brawl for its speed, or the lack of advanced techs found in, godforbid, two or three weeks, then I guess that's fine. But saying this game doesn;t have DEPTH? That's a joke, an utterly horrible joke. And you deserve to be Landmastered.

 

[errtu]

stupid fuc@%×g thread. you haven't played the game yet and you´re already complaining. it's not even out yet here in america. modded wiis and imported notwithstanding. shut the f**k up man and talk when the game has been released... actually some months after that... geez

EDIT: if u don't like wat you´ve seen don't buy it and spare us from ur whining. go play halo or whatever u do like. annoying pr**k

 

[pedro_nwo]

I read the same thing almost seven years ago when melee was released.

Creating million topics like this is the reason people from other forums (like neogaf) mock smashboards.

 

[Lithos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg

that is a more compareable vid. like it says first real melee tourny ever in va. it takes place in 2002.

i agree with you on what mostly you said. i thought the seiries would go more in the derection of a street fighter but instead it has somewhat receeded in tech ability.

i believe that brawl will have tournys. why not. people will still try to be the best at this game. however i agree that i dont think it will be long before the scene dies down a little bit back to how it was in 64. but that wont be for a couple of years.

lets just face it. the game has been made into more of a fun, less tech. game that anyone can play which is what nintendo wants.

Yeah, that video is a much better comparison in terms of timeframe.

Just goes to show that we shouldn't be judging this based on two weeks of people trying to make the game Melee. See how much Melee evolved from 2002? I can guarantee Brawl will evolve as well, into its own game.

 

[Dogenzaka]

But thanks to those “Complainers” who went to tourneys and phailed miserably, we get this watered down crap that they call the third installment of Super Smash Brothers.

It's rightfully watered down. If you have to use unintended and numerous glitch exploits to be a good smash player, you're not worth Sakurai's time.

When I see a sequel or whatever of a game, I expect it to be better than the first, in all ways. God of war, to God of war 2. That is an example of a great transition. Each on should be a building process.

It did build. In every aspect.
It simply took away exploits that weren't supposed to be there in the first place.

My gosh, quit your btching and go play Melee.

 

[red stone]

sakurai has done extensive research and testing in this game to make it competitive proof. sakurai hates losing, especially if he gets online so he makes sure that he knows all the secrets and glitches in the game.

 

[Ichida]

sakurai has done extensive research and testing in this game to make it competitive proof. sakurai hates losing, especially if he gets online so he makes sure that he knows all the secrets and glitches in the game.

Ooh, what I wouldn't give for a chance to take on Sakurai. Of course, I need at least a week of prep time with the game. XD

 

[AthrunZala]

ok let me expand on one point. that p[oint is depth.

ok yes so far it seems like brawl has less of it. the biggest things you can say is that l cancling and wave dashing are gone. this is big in melee as it made chars such as luigi and samus more viable char choices in melee. could you imagine how it would be watching say hugs or wes playing as samus without them wavedashing.. they would be no where near as good as they are in melee because of the loss of mind games. l canceling made people like bowzer and gannon playable in melee..... well maybe not bowzer but oh well. you could actually make them get faster then what they were. this is all part of depth. now in other games like street fighter, when "glitches" were found the creators did not simple go back and rework the whole game to get rid of these techs. what they did was they embraced them and harnessed them in the game making it a more fair game. now street fighter could be played by anyone. people who want a competitve game and people who want just a fun game where they can beat each other up. i think most people who played melee expected brawl to go more towards the route of a streetfighter game rather then taking a step back to how 64 smash was. (also 64 smash did have l can. just for the record.) it is almost like they jumped from 64 to brawl.. if you gave someone these 3 games (lets say a 9 year old) in 10 years on a virtual console with no info and they all looked the same, then asked the childto put the games in order he would probly say brawl is after 64 because (from what i have heard) the game plays more like 64 then it does melee.

now i am not saying i wont like the game or i wont be playing the hell out of it. march 9th my day looks like this, 12 am: get brawl at video store. 12:15 am: get back to house and play brawl with friends. 10 am: take a **** and a piss. 7 pm: tell friends to go home o i can pla adventure mode. 2 am: stop playing brawl and go to be dreaming about it. however the facts of this game are facts. it has got less depth then in melee and sakuri even said it did in his interview with iwata saying that he doesnt like how only a couple of people can be at the top of the iceburg. however the game will be exactly what it is suppose to be. a great party game. we shall see how the tourny scene makes out in a year or 2.

 

[Lant]

You have severe issues if you think anybody on the internet cares.

I certainly don't.

Here's a hint though:

In the future, don't get so ridiculously hyped on games building up huge expectations to the point of modding/importing a Wii with a copy of the game before it's even legally out in your country.

Tip 2: Go play melee.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Here's what I find wrong with this overused point about "depth". When talking about the professional or extremely competitive scene- the one where you basically fight 1 on 1 on Final Destination your whole life- the only "depth" I ever saw involved 5 or 6 overused characters with overused moves.

Posts like this read like a soccer mom trying to analyze a chess match between two grand masters. Geeeez.

 

[sv3]

I think the first post should have stopped at the picture.

 

[Hitzel]

It's rightfully watered down. If you have to use unintended and numerous glitch exploits to be a good smash player, you're not worth Sakurai's time.

It did build. In every aspect.
It simply took away exploits that weren't supposed to be there in the first place.

Depth was taken from Smash and replaced with... what? Don't start listing gimmicks.

Glitches are part of videogames every bit as much as developer-intended gameplay mechanics are, because in the end they are gameplay mechanics. Taking them out is TAKING AWAY FROM THE GAME. PERIOD. If Sakurai purposely took away from Smash's depth and didn't rebuild what he destroyed, Brawl will NOT be popular or interesting to play a few years from now, just as the OP is saying. If for whatever reason you haven't unlocked all the gimmicks in a year from now, unlocking them isn't going to make the core gameplay suddenly interesting if Sakurai intended for the game to be dumbed down.

I'm not talking out of my *** either, look at Halo. Games die in this way all the time. It's a reality, and fanboys blindly denying it isn't going to change that. It's very tempting for a developer to cash in on the casual crowd by making a dumbed down game. This is money we're talking about here, and companies will do anything to make as much as possible. It's why McDonalds feeds America horrible food. It's why large corporations bribe and lobby Congress. It's why Bungie sold out their fans when they made Halo 3. And if Brawl turns out to be another sellout, the reason behind it is money.

 

[pwning_pit]

oh, i think the title should say why "I" will most likely blah blah instead of "we" cz for sure, ill be playing it for like, evah! = ppp

 

[PokemonLegacy]

↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

Hey Ghettoman, GameFaqs is this way! ========>
XD

 

[Banjodorf]

People WILL discover a way to make Brawl competitive, some already have.
Your speculations and assumptions annoy me.

That's an awesome picture though.

Agreed. Stop making these threads and "complaining on message boards about games youve never played"

Stop expecting this to be Melee 2.0. Stop acting like we can discover all this game has t offer, or even a small percentage of it, in just two frickin weeks.

Enough. All of you who make these posts "Omfg, it's too slow to be competitive, even though tourneys have and are being held, and wil be held nonstop.

Also, this game will last til the next Smash, and even longer, I have no idea why you make these assumptions without good evidence.

This game is in ways wimilar to Smash 64. Of course, people still play that. Alot.

Also, Brawl. Is. Online. ONLINE. People who can play online will not get bored because of the ability to play with actual people whenever tey want, with any of 35 characters on any of 41 (or was it 51 counting melee?) stages. with 27 assist trophies (One of my only dsapointments) that bring alot of variety, many new items, etc. etc. etc.

Point being, Halo PC came out in 2002. I still play Halo PC online, so do many, many people. Therefore, your logic fails.

STOP. Making. These. Idiotic. Assumption. Threads. PLEASE.

Squirtle says stop. Listen to Squirtle, or bad things happen...bad things indeed...

 

[sv3]

STOP. Making. These. Idiotic. Assumption. Threads. PLEASE.

Unfortunately, the amount of stupidity on these boards (and most other Brawl boards) is infinite. You can't really compete with that =/

 

[The Alpha Gundam]

My only reason for posting in this thread
LMFAO

 

[Hitzel]

Melee is Great, Brawl is greater-er; that is what Sakurai has implied to us. Brawl IS noobified and has less ATs, but did Melee have Stagebuilder? No. Did Melee have Snake & Sonic as PCs? No. Did Melee have Stickers, Nostalgia induced Assist Trophies, Wi-Fi, & the SSE? No, no, no, & NO! Dont whine just because ATs are gone.
1.Theyre never completely gone.
2.All those competetive play Utube vids didnt have ATs, but that didnt stop them from making them!
If this what you want to believe, then fine. But in the end, youre only Bull****ting yourself.
Brawl will be played just as much as melee, if not more! And don't get me started on advanced techs.
If your this serious of a gamer, make new ones! Represent!! Lol sry had to do that...


-=okemonLegacy:=-

Are gimmicks going to matter in six years?

Are AT's going to matter in six years?

Hmm...

 

[Wizard99]

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!! Brawl isn't melee 2.0! Brawl is it's own game.

 

[Hitzel]

I have no idea why you make these assumptions without good evidence.

Really, now?

tourneys have and are being held, and wil be held nonstop.

Also, this game will last til the next Smash, and even longer

I have no idea why you make these assumptions without good evidence.

 

[sv3]

Evidence can easily be found by looking at the fact that tournaments are already being held in Brawl, and have been held throughout the Smash series. Both of the first games have already set a precedent that games of this series last until the next game of the series is released.

 

[Sideem Slingh]

Shouldn't we wait a couple of months before being entirely close minded about this type of stuff? I mean, really, it's like you expect to know everything before you even play it, or 10 days afterwards if you really have the game

 

[brawl1994]

this is like the 1000000000th thread about this, you just dont understand hardcore competitive players of smash, they keep to the game NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE GAME! and if there are glitches that are unavoidable, we can disqualify the person who does them in tournys. problem solved, there are ways around everything!

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Okay I guess you all can consider me on of these guys:

But I don’t Care.

I loved Super Paper Mario.

Before I Begin I want to clarify some things:

I am not saying Brawl will not be fun
I am not saying so and so move should have stayed in from melee
I am saying much skill has been taken out of the game.
I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0 (I guess)

...Ok...

If you wish to skip this story about my past melee experiences, please do:

Nah... I have time and I read fast.

“6 years ago I bought super smash brothers for my game cube. At that point I was a complete noob. I beat the game and eventually got all the trophies, like everyone else. I played with friends and had no idea about advanced techs. But when games got to a clutch and I was going to use, I used them unknowingly. Things like edge guarding dash dancing even SHFF (didn’t know about Lag canceling) and teching. Those things always made games more interesting, and made my friends strive to beat me. They did eventually, and over the years I found out things like L canceling, wavedashing and the use of the C stick. (C stick didn’t do anything in 1 player, so I assumed it did nothing in multiplayer.) “

Well, good for you. I also edgeguarded on my own as well as doing a form of SHFF (I liked using Ness's Bair to K.O.)

Then one day I saw videos. . . those crazy matches where players did every advanced thing imaginable. At that moment I said “I want to beat them” I never did get to that point, but I had something to strive for. I knew every trick in the book. Even what combos worked on who.

I recommend you watch some videos of Melee's first tournaments.

I was told there would be a brawl tournament the night brawl comes out in my area, so the only way for me to get ready was to watch videos. My, was I Horrified!

Yeah, I know. R.O.B. is in the game.

I understand that the game is different, but I have yet to see any long chain of combos like we used to see. Those were the things that many of use strived for. The “Ken Combo” the “Infinite Shine” long combos like that where great to watch and be a part of, on one side of it.

Yes, and those combos took months, MONTHS to perfect. How long has Brawl being released? 11 days in Japan. -27 days in America.

But thanks to those “Complainers” who went to tourneys and phailed miserably, we get this watered down crap that they call the third installment of Super Smash Brothers. IMO, Those advanced things made the difference between the casual players and the hardcore players. And what end up happening is you see some cocky casual player get his *** kicked, and he complains about all the glitches and stuff because he had never seen them before.

No, they didn't. Far more things divide pros from casuals, and don't you forget. They can't take spacing away, nor mindgames. Sucks for L-Cancel, but oh well.

Smash brothers Melee appealed to all. The casually players and the competitive ones. They just cant be brought together. The casual player gets rapped, and the competitive one is left unchallenged.

Don't remember it being like that in 2001. 2005? Yeah.

When I see a sequel or whatever of a game, I expect it to be better than the first, in all ways. God of war, to God of war 2. That is an example of a great transition. Each on should be a building process. “Alright, Im sure you played the previous one, lets build on that a little bit to make this one more interesting.

I like it better when they completely take apart the game and build it from scratch with some old elements and a bunch of new ones. Makes each game seem different.

This next statement in no way compared Halo to smash brothers!
In halo 2 many players played it until the release of halo 3, and now already many players have put down the controllers. This is that same for halo 1 players that put down the controllers for halo 2 . I am afraid this is what is going to happen with brawl. Yes, one player is more fun, same with halo 3, but because of the weapon balancing and glitch removing, there is nothing left to strive for.

Yeah, because there were no whiny *****es who complained that Halo 1 was more competitive than Halo 2. Oh wait, except it did happen. Twice, with Halo 3. Point? None. Let's move on.

One more thing: thanks to their attempt at balancing and making the **** game easier, some awful gliches has arisen:

Falco:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTpaKhElhk

Fox :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yQylP570VvI

Snake:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lf-E5bTpxOY&feature=user

I’m sure there are still others, but those where the ones I already knew of. If you know more, post them and I’ll add them here

That sucks. But they can release patches and versions 1.1s to fix that, and if anything, we'll ban stages accordingly.

But... it just *HAD* to be the Space Animals, huh?

Not only are these things Extremely Easy, they made other things easier. Like links Hookshot ledgegrab now everyone can do it, perfectly. Doing the perfect ledge is instant now, so many small things that required skill that soon become second nature are taken out so now everyone can do them. It Sucks.

I didn't get any sense of accomplishment from grappling in Melee. I don't see the point to make it easier, but whatever. Nothing important to me. Why care? Your whole paragraph reeks of elitism.

Now that many characters are balanced, everyone falls at the same speed, L canceling is removed to eliminate most combos, there are no more moves to be extremely aware of like shieks death punch or peaches down smash. Tourneys will most likely die down soon, and so will the game. I’m almost certain that this game cant really be played competitively, which is what keeps games alive longer than the first few months they are released.

OK, everyone fell at the same speed in SSB and people complained about it in Melee. I didn't see why they'd change it back, but you'll get over it. The removal of L-Cancel has no effect on combos as lag from aerials was cut in general, it's not like they cut L-Cancelling in Melee, they just never added it to Brawl... though it sucks for certain characters (Dorf/Falcon I heard)

Besides that, the game WILL have a competitive scene. Wether or not people from Melee carry over, that I can't easily predict. But with online and an eager community, I can see Brawl getting a healthy competitive environment.

AND, besides that, we're already finding the depth in Brawl. Understaning stale moves in the game is apparently very deep. Check Ryoko's post.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Okay I guess you all can consider me on of these guys:

But I don’t Care.

I loved Super Paper Mario.

Before I Begin I want to clarify some things:

I am not saying Brawl will not be fun
I am not saying so and so move should have stayed in from melee
I am saying much skill has been taken out of the game.
I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0 (I guess)

...Ok...

If you wish to skip this story about my past melee experiences, please do:

Nah... I have time and I read fast.

“6 years ago I bought super smash brothers for my game cube. At that point I was a complete noob. I beat the game and eventually got all the trophies, like everyone else. I played with friends and had no idea about advanced techs. But when games got to a clutch and I was going to use, I used them unknowingly. Things like edge guarding dash dancing even SHFF (didn’t know about Lag canceling) and teching. Those things always made games more interesting, and made my friends strive to beat me. They did eventually, and over the years I found out things like L canceling, wavedashing and the use of the C stick. (C stick didn’t do anything in 1 player, so I assumed it did nothing in multiplayer.) “

Well, good for you. I also edgeguarded on my own as well as doing a form of SHFF (I liked using Ness's Bair to K.O.)

Then one day I saw videos. . . those crazy matches where players did every advanced thing imaginable. At that moment I said “I want to beat them” I never did get to that point, but I had something to strive for. I knew every trick in the book. Even what combos worked on who.

I recommend you watch some videos of Melee's first tournaments.

I was told there would be a brawl tournament the night brawl comes out in my area, so the only way for me to get ready was to watch videos. My, was I Horrified!

Yeah, I know. R.O.B. is in the game.

I understand that the game is different, but I have yet to see any long chain of combos like we used to see. Those were the things that many of use strived for. The “Ken Combo” the “Infinite Shine” long combos like that where great to watch and be a part of, on one side of it.

Yes, and those combos took months, MONTHS to perfect. How long has Brawl being released? 11 days in Japan. -27 days in America.

But thanks to those “Complainers” who went to tourneys and phailed miserably, we get this watered down crap that they call the third installment of Super Smash Brothers. IMO, Those advanced things made the difference between the casual players and the hardcore players. And what end up happening is you see some cocky casual player get his *** kicked, and he complains about all the glitches and stuff because he had never seen them before.

No, they didn't. Far more things divide pros from casuals, and don't you forget. They can't take spacing away, nor mindgames. Sucks for L-Cancel, but oh well.

Smash brothers Melee appealed to all. The casually players and the competitive ones. They just cant be brought together. The casual player gets rapped, and the competitive one is left unchallenged.

Don't remember it being like that in 2001. 2005? Yeah.

When I see a sequel or whatever of a game, I expect it to be better than the first, in all ways. God of war, to God of war 2. That is an example of a great transition. Each on should be a building process. “Alright, Im sure you played the previous one, lets build on that a little bit to make this one more interesting.

I like it better when they completely take apart the game and build it from scratch with some old elements and a bunch of new ones. Makes each game seem different.

This next statement in no way compared Halo to smash brothers!
In halo 2 many players played it until the release of halo 3, and now already many players have put down the controllers. This is that same for halo 1 players that put down the controllers for halo 2 . I am afraid this is what is going to happen with brawl. Yes, one player is more fun, same with halo 3, but because of the weapon balancing and glitch removing, there is nothing left to strive for.

Yeah, because there were no whiny *****es who complained that Halo 1 was more competitive than Halo 2. Oh wait, except it did happen. Twice, with Halo 3. Point? None. Let's move on.

One more thing: thanks to their attempt at balancing and making the **** game easier, some awful gliches has arisen:

Falco:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTpaKhElhk

Fox :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yQylP570VvI

Snake:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lf-E5bTpxOY&feature=user

I’m sure there are still others, but those where the ones I already knew of. If you know more, post them and I’ll add them here

That sucks. But they can release patches and versions 1.1s to fix that, and if anything, we'll ban stages accordingly.

But... it just *HAD* to be the Space Animals, huh?

Not only are these things Extremely Easy, they made other things easier. Like links Hookshot ledgegrab now everyone can do it, perfectly. Doing the perfect ledge is instant now, so many small things that required skill that soon become second nature are taken out so now everyone can do them. It Sucks.

I didn't get any sense of accomplishment from grappling in Melee. I don't see the point to make it easier, but whatever. Nothing important to me. Why care? Your whole paragraph reeks of elitism.

Now that many characters are balanced, everyone falls at the same speed, L canceling is removed to eliminate most combos, there are no more moves to be extremely aware of like shieks death punch or peaches down smash. Tourneys will most likely die down soon, and so will the game. I’m almost certain that this game cant really be played competitively, which is what keeps games alive longer than the first few months they are released.

OK, everyone fell at the same speed in SSB and people complained about it in Melee. I didn't see why they'd change it back, but you'll get over it. The removal of L-Cancel has no effect on combos as lag from aerials was cut in general, it's not like they cut L-Cancelling in Melee, they just never added it to Brawl... though it sucks for certain characters (Dorf/Falcon I heard)

Besides that, the game WILL have a competitive scene. Wether or not people from Melee carry over, that I can't easily predict. But with online and an eager community, I can see Brawl getting a healthy competitive environment.

AND, besides that, we're already finding the depth in Brawl. Understaning stale moves in the game is apparently very deep. Check Ryoko's post.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

The game's been out for a week, yet somehow you're an expert on it? Chill out, there are still MANY, MANY secrets we don't know about this game. Melee's advanced techniques weren't discovered in the first week, you know.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Okay I guess you all can consider me on of these guys:

But I don’t Care.

I loved Super Paper Mario.

Before I Begin I want to clarify some things:

I am not saying Brawl will not be fun
I am not saying so and so move should have stayed in from melee
I am saying much skill has been taken out of the game.
I am saying I wanted to see a melee 2.0 (I guess)

...Ok...

If you wish to skip this story about my past melee experiences, please do:

Nah... I have time and I read fast.

“6 years ago I bought super smash brothers for my game cube. At that point I was a complete noob. I beat the game and eventually got all the trophies, like everyone else. I played with friends and had no idea about advanced techs. But when games got to a clutch and I was going to use, I used them unknowingly. Things like edge guarding dash dancing even SHFF (didn’t know about Lag canceling) and teching. Those things always made games more interesting, and made my friends strive to beat me. They did eventually, and over the years I found out things like L canceling, wavedashing and the use of the C stick. (C stick didn’t do anything in 1 player, so I assumed it did nothing in multiplayer.) “

Well, good for you. I also edgeguarded on my own as well as doing a form of SHFF (I liked using Ness's Bair to K.O.)

Then one day I saw videos. . . those crazy matches where players did every advanced thing imaginable. At that moment I said “I want to beat them” I never did get to that point, but I had something to strive for. I knew every trick in the book. Even what combos worked on who.

I recommend you watch some videos of Melee's first tournaments.

I was told there would be a brawl tournament the night brawl comes out in my area, so the only way for me to get ready was to watch videos. My, was I Horrified!

Yeah, I know. R.O.B. is in the game.

I understand that the game is different, but I have yet to see any long chain of combos like we used to see. Those were the things that many of use strived for. The “Ken Combo” the “Infinite Shine” long combos like that where great to watch and be a part of, on one side of it.

Yes, and those combos took months, MONTHS to perfect. How long has Brawl being released? 11 days in Japan. -27 days in America.

But thanks to those “Complainers” who went to tourneys and phailed miserably, we get this watered down crap that they call the third installment of Super Smash Brothers. IMO, Those advanced things made the difference between the casual players and the hardcore players. And what end up happening is you see some cocky casual player get his *** kicked, and he complains about all the glitches and stuff because he had never seen them before.

No, they didn't. Far more things divide pros from casuals, and don't you forget. They can't take spacing away, nor mindgames. Sucks for L-Cancel, but oh well.

Smash brothers Melee appealed to all. The casually players and the competitive ones. They just cant be brought together. The casual player gets rapped, and the competitive one is left unchallenged.

Don't remember it being like that in 2001. 2005? Yeah.

When I see a sequel or whatever of a game, I expect it to be better than the first, in all ways. God of war, to God of war 2. That is an example of a great transition. Each on should be a building process. “Alright, Im sure you played the previous one, lets build on that a little bit to make this one more interesting.

I like it better when they completely take apart the game and build it from scratch with some old elements and a bunch of new ones. Makes each game seem different.

This next statement in no way compared Halo to smash brothers!
In halo 2 many players played it until the release of halo 3, and now already many players have put down the controllers. This is that same for halo 1 players that put down the controllers for halo 2 . I am afraid this is what is going to happen with brawl. Yes, one player is more fun, same with halo 3, but because of the weapon balancing and glitch removing, there is nothing left to strive for.

Yeah, because there were no whiny *****es who complained that Halo 1 was more competitive than Halo 2. Oh wait, except it did happen. Twice, with Halo 3. Point? None. Let's move on.

One more thing: thanks to their attempt at balancing and making the **** game easier, some awful gliches has arisen:

Falco:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3UTpaKhElhk

Fox :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yQylP570VvI

Snake:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lf-E5bTpxOY&feature=user

I’m sure there are still others, but those where the ones I already knew of. If you know more, post them and I’ll add them here

That sucks. But they can release patches and versions 1.1s to fix that, and if anything, we'll ban stages accordingly.

But... it just *HAD* to be the Space Animals, huh?

Not only are these things Extremely Easy, they made other things easier. Like links Hookshot ledgegrab now everyone can do it, perfectly. Doing the perfect ledge is instant now, so many small things that required skill that soon become second nature are taken out so now everyone can do them. It Sucks.

I didn't get any sense of accomplishment from grappling in Melee. I don't see the point to make it easier, but whatever. Nothing important to me. Why care? Your whole paragraph reeks of elitism.

Now that many characters are balanced, everyone falls at the same speed, L canceling is removed to eliminate most combos, there are no more moves to be extremely aware of like shieks death punch or peaches down smash. Tourneys will most likely die down soon, and so will the game. I’m almost certain that this game cant really be played competitively, which is what keeps games alive longer than the first few months they are released.

OK, everyone fell at the same speed in SSB and people complained about it in Melee. I didn't see why they'd change it back, but you'll get over it. The removal of L-Cancel has no effect on combos as lag from aerials was cut in general, it's not like they cut L-Cancelling in Melee, they just never added it to Brawl... though it sucks for certain characters (Dorf/Falcon I heard)

Besides that, the game WILL have a competitive scene. Wether or not people from Melee carry over, that I can't easily predict. But with online and an eager community, I can see Brawl getting a healthy competitive environment.

AND, besides that, we're already finding the depth in Brawl. Understaning stale moves in the game is apparently very deep. Check Ryoko's post.

 

[Shuyin]

People fail to remember that everyone wasn't using advanced techniques right off the bat. Like everyone else said, this isn't melee. This game hasn't even been released worldwide. Wait until a few months pass and people are able to break the game.

 

[WastingPenguins]

The removal of L-Cancel has no effect on combos as lag from aerials was cut in general, it's not like they cut L-Cancelling in Melee, they just never added it to Brawl... though it sucks for certain characters (Dorf/Falcon I heard)

Are we watching the same videos? Even quick characters like Diddy suffer from some pretty horrible landing lag. Other characters like Marth and Toon Link actually fulfill this no-lag hypothesis, much to the dismay of every other character in the game. I'll really be shocked if character potential isn't more polarized than ever before.

 

[WeeklyJumpman]

Smash 64 was fun. Melee was fun. Brawl is fun.

 

[Your Hero]

just wait :], you'll see it completely different. It's better to make these threads like 1-whatever months after playing it alot.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Are we watching the same videos? Even quick characters like Diddy suffer from some pretty horrible landing lag. Other characters like Marth and Toon Link actually fulfill this no-lag hypothesis, much to the dismay of every other character in the game. I'll really be shocked if character potential isn't more polarized than ever before.

Ah well. I've been watching Lucas vids

 

[J18]

how exactly are those videos you posted glitches. they are in no way glitches. glitches aren't supposed to happen. so you think that fox and falco weren't programmed to use their blasters and reflectors? god people like you are ridiculous. you think there's no way at all to combo? you think this game won't be played competitively? you think it sucks cuz it's more balanced? i think you might be slightly ********

 

[User33]

Wow what an original, insightful thread. We don't have eight million threads about this already!

I think people making threads about this should be banned. They are so god **** irritating, I want them to all leave forever.

 

[Rash]

Smash 64 was fun. Melee was fun. Brawl is fun.

Bingo. Someone deserves a cookie.