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Hardest/Easiest characters to use in Project M

ThegreatVaporeon1

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Oct 28, 2013
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Who do you guys think are the hardest/easiest characters to use in this game? Personally I think Mario and Marth are pretty easy. And the hardest are probably Lucario and Fox

Please post away.
 

Roxas215

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Hard
Lucas/Ness/Pikachu/Yoshi/

Easy
Marth/Mario/Mewtwo/Wolf/Ivysaur/Zelda/


Mid level
Charizard/Zss/Fox/Falco/DK/Squirtle/Diddy


Just from my personal experience.
 
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mimgrim

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......Fox....... Is mid level yet Wolf is hard?

Wha?

Falco I can understand, to an extent.

But Fox? Waveshining with Fox is still considered as one of the hardest ATs to get down consistently, no? Or am I missing something?
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
imo ZSS is the hardest and mario is the easiest

edit: actually ganon is the hardest because he blows and winning with him is impossible.
 
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Roxas215

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......Fox....... Is mid level yet Wolf is hard?

Wha?

Falco I can understand, to an extent.

But Fox? Waveshining with Fox is still considered as one of the hardest ATs to get down consistently, no? Or am I missing something?
Huh?? I have Wolf as easy. He's clearly the easiest Spaceie to pick up(At least to someone who came from brawl)
 
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mimgrim

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Huh?? I have Wolf as easy. He's clearly the easiest Spaceie to pick up(At least to someone who came from brawl)
Oops, mistakenly read him in hard.

even then that begs the question.

Wolf easy? And the Brawl statement just doesn't add up since he has been radically changed from how plays in Brawl. >_>
 

TreK

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Hardest : Ice Climbers

Easiest : I'd say Link. That's just from a technical perspective though, the guy still takes skill to use.
 

Celestis

Smash Ace
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Feb 19, 2012
Messages
513
Hard
Lucas, Ice Climbers, Fox. (Fox is so common place, its hard to see him as hard anymore, though.)

Easy
Mario, Link, Ivy.
 

Y-L

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Marth is definitely one of the easiest characters. Not much risk, tons of reward.
 

MLGF

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Wolf may not be as tech heavy as Fox/Falco, but he's still pretty hard to use for a newcomer when it comes to playing him like a spacie.
You know, shine pressure and stuff.
Kinda hard to newcomers.

On topic:

Marth is all fundamentals and punishing. So he's likely the easiest character to sub ever because that technical barrier isn't too difficult, it's just pressure and stuff.
 
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Lagann

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It's kind of hard to say who is easier or harder because you can be good with some characters but a lot of their potential isn't used. Plus there is a difference between new smashers to P:M and veterans.

Beginner Easy: :sonic: :toonlink:

Veteran Easy: :link2: :ivysaur:

(On the fence between easy and hard):marth:
Veteran Hard: :falco: :fox: :wolf: :lucas: (The technicality with this group is what makes them hard.)
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Mario is probably the easiest, not that that's a bad thing. He really is a great all-rounder. His attacks flow together very well, quick projectile, a reflector, solid recovery, great throws, good kill options, nice wavedash, low lag and a general lack of sluggishness both on the ground and in the air make him easy to control.
 

rikochet

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ive failed to win much as melee dk main for years, but in PM its a whole different story. DESTRUCCTION :dk2:

hardest id say wolf and pikachu. for some reason its not as easy to just instantly pick up the tech skill to use these two for there potential.
honarable mention: lucario, olimar
 
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Hinichii.ez.™

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You know who else is the hardest character in PM?
 

Phan7om

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Hard: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Yoshi, ICs, Lucas, Ness, Lucario
Mid-Hard: Pikachu, Diddy, Falcon, Mewtwo
Mid: Sonic, GnW, Ike, Peach, ZSS, Link, Tink, ROB, Zelda
Mid-Easy: Kirby, Wario, Luigi, Pit, DK, Snake, Ganon, Squirtle, Samus, Metaknight,
Easy: Puff, Mario, Sheik, Marth, Ivy, Roy, Bowser, Charizard, D3
 

G13_Flux

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Wolf may not be as tech heavy as Fox/Falco, but he's still pretty hard to use for a newcomer when it comes to playing him like a spacie.
You know, shine pressure and stuff.
Kinda hard to newcomers.

On topic:

Marth is all fundamentals and punishing. So he's likely the easiest character to sub ever because that technical barrier isn't too difficult, it's just pressure and stuff.
wolf is more tech heavy than falco for certain, and he competes with fox for hardest tech skill IMO. like think of all the flash shortens that he needs to do to be succesful. fox and falco dont have to worry about those like he does, and even when they do, its easier to do than wolfs (since he has like 4 different lengths). his blaster is also quite tech heavy. nobody does it, but incorporating b reverses into the blaster can add a lot to your game, and when combined with the waveland it can be a lot on the fingers. his shine also requires better DI reads. ADDITIONALLY, wolf is much more dependent on spacing than fox or falco. not that spacing isnt important with them (its important with everyone), but wolf is a bit more reliant on it since he cant just run in with every aerial in his arsenal and be safe on shield most of the time like the other two are. things like bair, fair, and dair are more effectively used with cross ups and proper spacing as opposed to brute speed to wear down shields, which IMO is more difficult to do properly than developing the muscle memory to do shine pillars. DACUS is also much more important to wolf than falco (for fox its nonexistent), and many of his killers have sweetspots (fair, side b, bair, upsmash). falco is defnitely the easiest space animal to play.

heres my breakdown:

hard: fox, wolf, lucas, yoshi, ice climbers, lucario

Easy: mario, marth, peach, wario, kirby, ivysaur

all others are somewhere in between. This is as far as tech skill though, beware that characters like peach, snake, roy, and ZSS can actually be some of the hardest ones to play in terms of your thinking. These characters might not be particularly difficult tech skill wise, but they have traits that make their success heavily focused on the decisions you make with them, how you apply certain moves, and weighing risks to keep your weaknesses from being exploited to hard. Roy actually has some high tech skill maneuvers as well, so he can be quite difficult to perform well with against good players.

everyone is going to have different opinions, and some characters can be hard for individual players while other players find them easy to play with. it depends on your playstyle.
 

Luigimanski64

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Hardest: spacies, lucas, falcon
Easiest: mario link diddy ivysaur
Strong bad: dk

Also marth isnt the easiest because his pivots, punishes, chain grab combos, and frame trap tech chases all require practice, not to mention combos require precision unlike ones like dk
 

Luigimanski64

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wolf is more tech heavy than falco for certain, and he competes with fox for hardest tech skill IMO. like think of all the flash shortens that he needs to do to be succesful. fox and falco dont have to worry about those like he does, and even when they do, its easier to do than wolfs (since he has like 4 different lengths). his blaster is also quite tech heavy. nobody does it, but incorporating b reverses into the blaster can add a lot to your game, and when combined with the waveland it can be a lot on the fingers. his shine also requires better DI reads. ADDITIONALLY, wolf is much more dependent on spacing than fox or falco. not that spacing isnt important with them (its important with everyone), but wolf is a bit more reliant on it since he cant just run in with every aerial in his arsenal and be safe on shield most of the time like the other two are. things like bair, fair, and dair are more effectively used with cross ups and proper spacing as opposed to brute speed to wear down shields, which IMO is more difficult to do properly than developing the muscle memory to do shine pillars. DACUS is also much more important to wolf than falco (for fox its nonexistent), and many of his killers have sweetspots (fair, side b, bair, upsmash). falco is defnitely the easiest space animal to play.

heres my breakdown:

hard: fox, wolf, lucas, yoshi, ice climbers, lucario

Easy: mario, marth, peach, wario, kirby, ivysaur

all others are somewhere in between. This is as far as tech skill though, beware that characters like peach, snake, roy, and ZSS can actually be some of the hardest ones to play in terms of your thinking. These characters might not be particularly difficult tech skill wise, but they have traits that make their success heavily focused on the decisions you make with them, how you apply certain moves, and weighing risks to keep your weaknesses from being exploited to hard. Roy actually has some high tech skill maneuvers as well, so he can be quite difficult to perform well with against good players.

everyone is going to have different opinions, and some characters can be hard for individual players while other players find them easy to play with. it depends on your playstyle.
That bit with wolf may just be the most ignorant write up that ive ever seen on this website. Aside from strong bads stuff of course.
 

Mischief

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I wouldn't say marth is easy, it's just that marth covers a lot of match up spreads because his attacks work so well with fundamentals. His tools work well at dealing with everyone, but his weaknesses are the same as in melee and arguably more exploitable in some of the new matchups. The problem is marths meta is super developed compared to a lot of the new characters, and because that meta works so well against everyone (where as fox and falco have more specific matchup advanages and disadvantages, and get combod harder than marth) it can probably still seem like he wrecks easily. I say learn your matchups, develop the meta, and though marth will probably still stay top tier I think playing him will be just as hard as it is in melee where spacing needs to be impeccable at a high level.
 

G13_Flux

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That bit with wolf may just be the most ignorant write up that ive ever seen on this website. Aside from strong bads stuff of course.
really now? so aside from the fact that i just wrote a bunch in depth giving examples to support why wolf and fox are harder to play than falco, something about that is still ignorant? what exactly is ignorant about it? please, enlighten me. id enjoy to learn why you are so adamant to post something like that about someone who is here to simply analyze the game. since you are so smart, why dont you give a developed opinion? sounds like your just here to troll from the looks of it, considering you just joined the website yesterday..
 
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Luigimanski64

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really now? so aside from the fact that i just wrote a bunch in depth giving examples to support why wolf and fox are harder to play than falco, something about that is still ignorant? what exactly is ignorant about it? please, enlighten me. id enjoy to learn why you are so adamant to post something like that about someone who is here to simply analyze the game. since you are so smart, why dont you give a developed opinion? sounds like your just here to troll from the looks of it, considering you just joined the website yesterday..
"In depth explanations" dont mean squat if its all wrong, like when you said that wolfs shorten was harder because unlike fox and falcos it has 4 different lengths. But Id be glad to help enlighten and educate you on what you did wrong. Wolf is deeeeefinitely not as tech heavy as falco, for one. Falcos punish game requires intricate button inputs, unintuitive movements and a complex punish tree that requires time to study, and even more to become quick and precise with it. Wolfs combos are really simple. He has extremely basic and forgiving tilts and aerials that even chillin could figure out quickly. He gets less off of his shine and thus doesnt need to expect to follow it up as much, nor is comboing consistently as crucial to wolf, not to mention being much bigger and easier to land than falcos shine which is the smallest.

Wolf has the most average jumpsquat, meaning that he will be more consistent with waveshines than fox while not getting stuck in shine as much as falco. Every single trait about wolf, his projectile, his speed and jump heights, his smashes, his attacks, his shine, his neutral game, his recovery, his punish tree etc. is by far the most intuitive and average, making him great for any player to pick up and be introduced to the spacies.

Another thing that makes wolf easier is that his strengths are in areas that make him less fragile and his neutral works in a way that puts him in far less situations where he is vulnerable than fox or falco, and doesnt need to worry nearly as much about being precise or consistent. Spacing isnt nearly as important since he has the best crouch cancel with his d smash, and his recovery is by far the best. In general, while hes not the easiest charavter in pm by far and has a lot of things to practice, he still doesnt stress consistency or require nearly as much basement practice to be good with. Chillin has played fox for years and his wolf is already just as good if not better.
 

G13_Flux

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"Wolfs combos are really simple."
LOL you dont understand this character.

"He has extremely basic and forgiving tilts and aerials."
as if falcos aerials and tilts arent basic and forgiving? i didnt realize that the brain dead approach of an extremely easy to use projectile, into the walled hitboxes that are dair, bair, and nair were difficult to pull off.. wolfs nair is very small, and you cant just barge through every attack an opponent puts out with it, meaning it requires more decisive use. wolfs dair also doesnt last for 50 seconds like falcos bair, dair, and nair do, and it isnt always as safe on shield. wolfs bair and fair BOTH have sourspots geared towards comboing, and sweetspots meant for killing, and they actually require a lot of precision to land them, particularly with fair.

"He gets less off of his shine and thus doesnt need to expect to follow it up as much, nor is comboing consistently as crucial to wolf."
This is wrong. i shouldnt even need an explanation.

"Wolf has the most average jumpsquat, meaning that he will be more consistent with waveshines than fox while not getting stuck in shine as much as falco. Every single trait about wolf, his projectile, his speed and jump heights, his smashes, his attacks, his shine, his neutral game, his recovery, his punish tree etc. is by far the most intuitive and average, making him great for any player to pick up and be introduced to the spacies."
The fact that wolf has a quicker jump squat than falco means that he will consitently have to perform quicker inputs, thus imparting a higher strain on the player, and requiring faster fingers. falcos punish usually consists of throwing out lasers until he can run in with a nair or dair, and just start shine comboing people. wolfs projectile take more button inputs to use, and he has more options out of it between b-reversing and directional WLing. its also easier to beat out in neutral since it can clank with attacks and be cancelled. This requires a more skilled and smart usage of his projectile, DD, and approach options. Already, it should be clear to you that wolfs approach options arent as linear as falcos, and need more thought to be used effectively. Additionally, its quite difficult to pick wolf up. theres a reason you dont see new players picking wolf up left and right like you do mario. His kill moves take a lot of accuracy, and his combos require a lot of precision too.

"Another thing that makes wolf easier is that his strengths are in areas that make him less fragile and his neutral works in a way that puts him in far less situations where he is vulnerable than fox or falco."
So the higher amount of lag on all of his aerials, his projectile, and his normals means that hes less vulnerable than fox or falco? in fact, this means that spacing is all the more important to him, especially considering that all of his aerials and normals have more range, despite the comparatively longer endlag.

"Chillin has played fox for years and his wolf is already just as good if not better."
You forget that things like waveshining and multi shines are skills that translate between the space animals. Additionally, the years that he has developed of general smash experience make it much easier for him to break down and analyze a characters moves, while having the tech skill built up to quickly adapt to different things. Your constant mentioning of Chillindude doesnt exactly prove that wolf is easy to pick up.. youre talking about ONE player here.

Before i end this rant, I would just like to point out that regardless of your viewpoint, making an effort to go out of your way to call someone ignorant is extremely rude. This website is meant to encourage players, and constructively discuss things. You could have easily said something like "I actually think falco is a bit harder to play than wolf. Here are my reasons: A; B; C; etc." coming into a thread like this and just throwing out insults makes you look like an idiot.. and your arguments dont exactly disprove it either.. I suggest you reconsider your attitude if you want to make friends on these boards.
 
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G13_Flux

Smash Lord
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1,076
eh double post, sorry. internet was acting weird.
 
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Luigimanski64

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Hahahaha falco braindead. Everyone that plays this game thinks that yet they have little understanding of the character and are garbage falcos themselves. You dont understand the meta or any of the spacies if you dont understand how character specific, percentage specific his punish tree is, nor the discipline that goes into strong offense (spacing lasers correctly for example). Falco is one of the deepest characters and youd have to be mad bad to not see that. Hes a character so difficult that literally only two people have acheived high level play with him, with many others plateauing at the mid level, and even then these mid level falcos are miles better than other falcos. Hes not a character you can rely on raw fundamentals to succeed with like you can with wolf and to a much lesser extent fox (everyone has a pocket fox but every pocket fox is bad because he demands such high consistency in tech skill and spacing, like falco) if you dont believe me and think anyone can play falco, ask strong bad the best pm player and jack of all trades to stream himself playing falco in pm or melee. I can gayrantee you that you wont see anything more than a falco with 2 hit punishes, and constantly gets shield grabbed with his garbage laser approaches and gets stuck in shine with his obese dk tech skill
 

Luigimanski64

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Warning Received
Also complaining about spacies isnt new or constructive. Strong bad, eli, and their justice league of flacid project sausagefest keyboard heroes have that area covered

And me and strong bad are already best friends and the sexiest studs on smashboards so at this point everyone else is bottom tier. Why would i want to be friends with someone like eli who cant even see his toes and oracle with his greasy rats nest hairdo when i can chill with chick magnets like strong bad? Thats a rhetorical question so dont even respond with dumb bs like eli always remembers his wifes anniversary or w/e.
 
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G13_Flux

Smash Lord
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And me and strong bad are already best friends and the sexiest studs on smashboards so at this point everyone else is bottom tier.
lol on that note.. im gonna have to start doubting youre taking this seriously at all. You are too cocky for your own good.

but this is getting out of hand. If youre going to start talking crap about everyone now i think im gonna pass on conversing with you. I dont care who youre friends with, you just barged on to these boards in about the rudest way possible, and atm youve got nothing contructive to offer anyone here.

just an fyi to all, Im not trying to say falco is easy to play as. compared to the rest of the cast, i do think he is quite difficult to play as. i believe that fox and wolf are still harder to play as though. none of the space animals are exactly easy to play.
 

MoonKingFonz

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Aug 9, 2014
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Cordova, Tennessee
In my experience (as little as that would be), I think:

Easy: Mario, marth.

Hard: falco, ice climbers

I played fox for the first time yesterday and he's everything I wanted falco to be. (Falco feels slow to me and fox is what I expected) and obviously he has hard things to master, but I think falco is harder to pick up. I feel Mario is the go-to character Nintendo designed him to be since everyone recognizes him as he's easy to pick up and play with. Marth is quite similar thanks to perfect knock back for comboing with his move set.

I felt MGW is a wacky character that requires practice to be good with but he's mid. Same goes for Ivysaur (he's easier though) and the pay kids.
 

menotyou135

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Oct 22, 2013
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Now when we say easiest, are we talking about easiest for someone who has never played to game and has no idea about how to even Up Special to recover to play, or are we talking about casual smash players who understands the basics of the game to play?

Easiest for a 7 year old to play (from my experience with a real 7 year old).

S: Kirby/Jiggly/Yoshi (can recover with just jumps and don't move too fast)
A: MK/Dedede/Bowser/DK/Charizard/Mewtwo (can recover with jumps still or are hard to knock off to begin with)

Hardest:
C. Falcon/Spacies/Squirtle/anybody who moves even remotely fast and/or has a move that is easy to SD with


Easiest for normal people
Ivysaur/Link/Marth/Sonic/Sheik/Mario

Hardest:
Spacies
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
toonlink is so hard you have to press buttons and sometimes you get punished or something
 

2 C H i L L E D

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In the context of; How easy it is to pick the character up, and the time it takes to master the character.

Hardest: Lucario, Lucas, Olimar (If you assume the player is playing him to the best possible ability.)
- Wolf, Fox, then Falco.

Easiest: Mario, Meta Knight, Roy

My personal hardest: Samus. I can't not for the life of me handle the floatiness T__T !!! I've never used Samus and took a stock off of my opponent lol. If you can play Samus I salute you for that **** lol.
 
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