Handling Custom Movesets If They Are Deemed Legal: Tentative System Plans

[TimeSmash]

Hi everyone.

For once, I'm not sure if this is the best place this should go, but hopefully it is and if it needs to be moved then by all means. This thread is about the hurdles we will have to overcome if custom movesets for Miis are deemed legal. This is a speculative topic, and assumes that custom movesets will be allowed to pass, and is thus not a topic on legality. For that, please go to the thread titled "Whatever that thread is titled"

This thread's purpose is to establish a system to streamline the custom moveset process in both a fast and fair manner. Because so many people will probably want to play as Mii Fighter, and because there are tons of different moveset options that this particular fighter can have, we need to put something in place for TOs so tournaments have a chance to finish on time. Also, your opponents need to be informed of what moves you're using, for the sake of fairness. As an example, let's say I was playing Zelda and my opponent was playing a Mii Fighter. You know concretely what my specials will be, but I can't say the same of you. Over time, most likely (especially with Smash 3DS on the horizon), certain moves/movesets will be more pronounced, but everyone deserves to know which moveset is going to be used.

Because of the 3DS' unique capabilities, a strong point was suggested in the custom moveset legality thread that basically said you could use your 3DS to upload your Mii to the WiiU you'll be playing on. So there's a start to this topic. Please denote if you are talking about WiiU tournaments or 3DS tournaments in your post, for the sake of clarity. This post is definitely kind of rough right now, so please forgive me for that. It will be edited later when I can think more clearly of what to write. For now, please list suggestions on how we deal with this unique issue, feeling free to provide arguments and counterarguments to your/eachother's points. If we can assemble some sort of system to deal with this before the games come out, especially the WiiU version, we'll be much more prepared than if not. Thanks!!

 

[TimeSmash]

Reserving for space just in case.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Aside from the 3DS, which most players will have anyway, like I said in the original thread, I'm fairly confident that we'll be able to export to:

• QR codes (a la Tomodachi Life)
• Amiibos (a la Wii Sports and the Wiimote mii-saving).

 

[Deoxys911]

If they are deemed legal, for both Wii U and 3DS I feel like the best way to handle it is to decide which combinations of moves are low, mid, and top tier, then allow those pre-determined movesets. Before the match you would tell/show the opponent which moveset you are using.

 

[Second Power]

If all custom moves are allowed, that invalidates the one sided blind drawback of just Miis having the advantage by inducing a double blind. A double blind also deepens the meta by adding an information control aspect to the game (should I keep my special hidden until it can do some real damage, or is the drawback of playing down a special for a while to great?).

As I said in other thread, for Wii U version, transfer them from 3DS version. If the player can't do that for whatever reason, they have to ask the TO for some extra time to select their moves (which the TO is perfectly within their rights to deny if it's a large tournament).

 

[Book Jacket]

Uploading Miis is a great idea, as long as the Mii's fighter data can be properly transferred. We know that the 3DS can apparently do something of the like, so that part is nice. From there, it becomes about the legality of customization.

 

[wafflini]

First off, i disagree with having a double-blind scenario with the mii's moveset for the simple fact that it is practically pointless after the first round. After round one people will know about the specials that you have chosen. Even if they did not see you play they could simply ask someone who has, or even the person who played you (This is of course assuming that you would have to lock into whatever set of custom moves you originate with, which i do agree with, but is an argument for a different thread). I feel the advantage given to the Mii players is not enough to warrant the practice itself.

Secondly, i say no 3ds, no Mii. Lol. That is the only way i can imagine the use of Miis not taking forever.

 

[Zzuxon]

Each Wii should have a few Miis of each weight class available for those who don't have the means or motivation to bring their own.

 

[wafflini]

Each Wii should have a few Miis of each weight class available for those who don't have the means or motivation to bring their own.

I could agree, except that the Wii U only holds a small number of Miis (Which ****ing sucks and makes no goddamn sense if you ask me, but im not here to rant). If somehow we could get around that, we could have miis set up for each weight class, and each height (so long as not ever click of height and weight makes a change to speed, power, etc., that could get ridiculous).

 

[Zzuxon]

I could agree, except that the Wii U only holds a small number of Miis (Which ****ing sucks and makes no goddamn sense if you ask me, but im not here to rant). If somehow we could get around that, we could have miis set up for each weight class, and each height (so long as not ever click of height and weight makes a change to speed, power, etc., that could get ridiculous).

You wouldn't strictly need more than maybe 20, 4 distinct miis in 5 weight classes.
And that is assuming there are 5 classes, there are more likely 3.
EDIT: Wait, forgot about height.
I suppose that with al the different costumes, you could maybe get away with just 2 miis, 1 male, 1 female. Take those 2, duplicate 'em, change up heights and weights.
This all assumes that weight and height aren't synthesized into an overall weight class.

 

[Shirarisun]

How about allowing 4 selected moves from each type?

For example, Brawler Mii can only use Shot Put as it's neutral special, Soaring Axe Kick as it's up special, and so on?

 

[Saikyoshi]

Each Wii should have a few Miis of each weight class available for those who don't have the means or motivation to bring their own.

This is an idea I actually like. Default Miis can be an option as long as they're not mandatory.

How about allowing 4 selected moves from each type?

For example, Brawler Mii can only use Shot Put as it's neutral special, Soaring Axe Kick as it's up special, and so on?

And this is an idea I don't like. Because Shot Put doesn't fit on PaRappa the Rapper and Soaring Axe Kick doesn't fit on Glass Joe.

As you can tell, I'm pretty concerned about aesthetics.

 

[wafflini]

You wouldn't strictly need more than maybe 20, 4 distinct miis in 5 weight classes.
And that is assuming there are 5 classes, there are more likely 3.
EDIT: Wait, forgot about height.
I suppose that with al the different costumes, you could maybe get away with just 2 miis, 1 male, 1 female. Take those 2, duplicate 'em, change up heights and weights.
This all assumes that weight and height aren't synthesized into an overall weight class.

I dont think the Wii U holds more than 20 miss, if that many at all.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I dont think the Wii U holds more than 20 miss, if that many at all.

I don't know where you got that idea, because you can have up to 100 favorite Miis and the system holds much more non-favorites than that.

The 3DS and the normal Wii both have an even limit of 100 Miis total, so why would the Wii U only hold a fraction of that?

 

[wafflini]

I don't know where you got that idea, because you can have up to 100 favorite Miis and the system holds much more non-favorites than that.

The 3DS and the normal Wii both have an even limit of 100 Miis total, so why would the Wii U only hold a fraction of that?

...

I must be doing something worng, lol. To be honest, i only use the Wii U for brawl.

 

[TimeSmash]

So I got so many notifications I didn't notice the replies to this.

I think locking movesets when you have a Mii is a great idea. You still have the option to choose other characters, and for the sake of time no one wants someone to change their whole moveset. I think it's safe to say other character's customizations would be a lot simpler and faster to do. Does that make it fair for Mii Fighter mains though?

Default Miis is a really good idea for people who can't transfer their own, and would be easy to do in like fifteen minutes. Then your WiiU would be pretty much set for its tournament life in that aspect.

For clarification, it's just B moves that you can customize on the Mii Fighters, right??

 

[Saikyoshi]

For clarification, it's just B moves that you can customize on the Mii Fighters, right??

That's what it looks like. Though I hope we can at least customize their taunts and entrances, too...

 

[TimeSmash]

So what kind of systems is everyone thinking of putting in place for tournaments to handle Mii Fighters?

You know how you online register for tournaments? Maybe there should be an additional option for Mii Fighters, where you can register which body type you're using, and also what moveset you're using. You could also say you're bringing that Mii if it's registered to your 3DS, or if your friends are registering and don't have a 3DS, you are a proxy for them. (Like, some tab or checkbox that says "Are you registering for anyone else too?" and then a dropdown box for if you do). There could possibly be some sort of system like that at the actual tournament, with a deadline.

 

[MAtgSy]

Surely Sakurai & Namco considered the problem of how custom movesets were gonna work when a player is, for example, going over to a friend's house to play. My bet is amiibos is their solution. Those can store data, right? So it's entirely possible they may be utilized for customized data storage/transfer.

Sure, there's only 1 gamepad per Wii U, but I don't think an amiibo needs to stay on the gamepad for the entire duration of a match, just long enough to download a player profile unto the Wii U. So each participating player takes turns downloading their profiles & then start the match.

 

[タオー]

I honestly feel like the competitive scene will eventually develop legally (or viable) mii character layouts. Some mii variants will most likely have certain advantages that make other mii layouts obsolete. Legal competitive "Mii Builds" seem like the kind of solution that gives the community the most control to make sure that the game remains balanced.
They could however do an amazing job and all the moves are viable... which could be very daunting.

 

[TimeSmash]

Surely Sakurai & Namco considered the problem of how custom movesets were gonna work when a player is, for example, going over to a friend's house to play. My bet is amiibos is their solution. Those can store data, right? So it's entirely possible they may be utilized for customized data storage/transfer.

Sure, there's only 1 gamepad per Wii U, but I don't think an amiibo needs to stay on the gamepad for the entire duration of a match, just long enough to download a player profile unto the Wii U. So each participating player takes turns downloading their profiles & then start the match.

This is a good point because it would offer an alternative to those who don't have a 3DS, not saying those shouldn't be used either though haha. I don't know if Amiibos could store multiple Miis, but they're definitely good for a single person. If you're using a custom Mii, a mindset might develop akin to "bring your own controller" where players need to bring their 3DS or Amiibo (or if their Mii is on a friend's 3DS, make sure that friend brings it) or otherwise you won't be able to play as a Custom Mii. A little harsh, but I could definitely see that being a reality.

And I definitely agree with you that the Amiibo would have to stay on the Gamepad the entire time. I imagine it would kind of scan/sense the Amiibo, download the data, and be good to go from there. I also don't see long download times being an issue from Amiibos, so that's definitely a good thought