Greninja vs Other Characters

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I don't think so. Still feel mewtwo will be playable. He is demanded a lot

 

[Annex]

Charizard, Pikachu, Lucario, Jiggs, Greninja, AND Mewtwo?
Same number of reps as Brawl, so sure, why not.

He said he didn't want clones though yeah? So I guess he'd have to get a new moveset.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Not at all. We can still get both Jigglypuff and Mewtwo, but I feel there's a decent chance that only one will get in. At the same time I feel there's a decent chance they both will as well.

I'd say it's a 50/50 chance that we'll get both, or just one. It could go either way IMO.

Charizard, Pikachu, Lucario, Jiggs, Greninja, AND Mewtwo?
Same number of reps as Brawl, so sure, why not.

He said he didn't want clones though yeah? So I guess he'd have to get a new moveset.

Mewtwo and Lucario's movesets are hardly anything alike.

Though I have no doubt that Mewtwo will get some new moves.

 

[ProjectAngel]

No. Why in God's name would anyone think one character took another's spot?

 

[lordvaati]

I'm Gonna play Devil's ad and say either Jiggly OR M2 will be back. not both.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Brawl had
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Lucario
Jigglypuff

That's 6 reps

Smash 4
Pikachu
Lucario
Charizard
Greninja
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff

That's 6. It wouldnt be over representing pokemon because it would still have the same number of reps just like brawl

 

[Annex]

Mewtwo and Lucario's movesets are hardly anything alike.

Oh ok

 

[Garde Noir]

Jiggly will make it in, I'm not so sure about Mewtwo. It's a shame, and I hope to be proven wrong

 

[Arcadenik]

I thought the theory was that they show newcomers after they show all the veterans.... well, what if Pikachu, Lucario, and Charizard are the only veterans?

 

[Dreamking]

I feel that if the limit is five spots for any one series on the character select screen, I would rather have Mewtwo than Jigglypuff.

 

[Raetah]

You know that if this is Jigglypuff vs Mewtwo, most likely Mewtwo is the one going down...
Jigglypuff was in 64, in Melee and he was not the one cutted in Brawl.
Sakurai does need Puff in game for some reason.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I still feel like Mewtwo has a pretty good chance. There's Sakurai's E3 comment, and he's super "in" which bodes well for a Pokemon character.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I feel that if the limit is five spots for any one series on the character select screen, I would rather have Mewtwo than Jigglypuff.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[andalsoandy]

I thought the theory was that they show newcomers after they show all the veterans.... well, what if Pikachu, Lucario, and Charizard are the only veterans?

Perhaps...

Unless they aren't showing unlockables (sans Mega Man and Sonic.) Mewtwo and Jigglypuff could be hidden characters.

 

[Gaminguy010]

If he stole any characters spot it's Squirtle's spot.

 

[VictoryIsMudkipz]

Maybe in the trailer, but overall, no, I think Mew2 can still be optional for Smash 4

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

I'll quote myself from another thread:

If you break it down and count all of PT's Pokemon as individual characters (which they are as far as development is concerned) there are 6 Pokemon characters in the game, by dropping Ivysaure and Squirtle there are two new "pokemon spaces" on the roster. Ganinja takes one. Mewtwo takes the other. No new spots are actually taken, except that they now have their own spot on the roster.


Long story short: Ganinja doesn't really jeopardize Mewtwo, because he isn't really taking a spot on the roster, he just adds a new character slot on the character select screen.

 

[Starbound]

Brawl had 6 Pokemon:
Pikachu
Charizard
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Lucario
Jigglypuff

Smash4 currently has 4:
Pikachu
Lucario
Charizard
Greninja

I see no reason why Mewtwo and Jigglypuff can't be the last two.

 

[---]

If you guys are going to discuss other veteran characters please take it to their respective threads and or the Character Discussion thread.

 

[Louie G.]

Alright, before you comment, THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT MATCHUPS.
This is a thread to decide which characters are affected by Greninja's inclusion.
His ninja elements may detract from Takamaru, he snatched a Pokemon slot that could have been Mewtwo or Jiggly's, etc.
So discuss. How does Greninja's inclusion affect the likeliness of other characters?

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Hawlucha, Chesnaught, Blaziken, Mewtwo, Sylveon, many more...

Heh, Mewtwo

 

[Banjodorf]

Alright, before you comment, THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT MATCHUPS.
This is a thread to decide which characters are affected by Greninja's inclusion.
His ninja elements may detract from Takamaru, he snatched a Pokemon slot that could have been Mewtwo or Jiggly's, etc.
So discuss. How does Greninja's inclusion affect the likeliness of other characters?

Honestly I'm not feeling that hot about Takamaru anymore. And strangely, any want I had for him shifted straight into Greninja as soon as he showed up. Weird. Though it may have to do with Greninja being a pleasant surprise, one of my new favorite Pokemon, and basically having everything I wanted from Takamaru apart from lightning and a katana-based moveset. He does still have blades though. He's also sort of got the aesthetic.

I don't think he affected Pokemon newcomers though. Pokemon is a large series, and had 6 reps in Brawl to Mario and Zelda's 4+5 respectively. I don't see them getting less than Mewtwo+Jiggs, it's just that the latter two are hidden and the first four (Pika, Zard, Lucario and Gren) are starters.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Hawlucha, Chesnaught, Blaziken, Mewtwo, Sylveon, many more...

Heh, Mewtwo

Hawlucha is too small and too irrelevant to be in Smash. Chesnaught isn't popular enough. Sylveon has 4 leg syndrome.

Blaziken works. He's actually pretty popular. Mewtwo is my man.

For a Poke rep I'd choose Sceptile. He isn't very popular but he is a starter and his anatomy suggest an easy move set.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Hawlucha is too small and too irrelevant to be in Smash. Chesnaught isn't popular enough. Sylveon has 4 leg syndrome.

Blaziken works. He's actually pretty popular. Mewtwo is my man.

For a Poke rep I'd choose Sceptile. He isn't very popular but he is a starter and his anatomy suggest an easy move set.

I'm pretty sure the to small element got thrown ot the window when olimar became playable
a better argument for sylveon would be no way to grab the edge (remember, ivysaur has four legs)

 

[ImaClubYou]

I'm pretty sure the to small element got thrown ot the window when olimar became playable
a better argument for sylveon would be no way to grab the edge (remember, ivysaur has four legs)

Yes, but Olimar is a main man.. and not just a main man, he's Miyamoto's baby. Too small is a legit argument when you compare them to characters of the same franchise. Lucario standing next to Hawlucha just doesn't sit right ala Ridley and Samus.

And let's be real. If PT wasn't a thing then Ivy would never even been mentioned. Heck, Charizard would've been a stand alone since Brawl. Four leg syndrome falls into play most of the time but there are some characters that I can sum up full move sets with 4 legs.

 

[lobotheduck21]

alright, hawlucha is 2 feet, about twice the size of pikachu, kirby, squirtle

also lucario was the same size as pokemon trainer, when in the games he is about a foot shorter

 

[Louie G.]

"Too small" is such a ridiculous argument considering Olimar, Pikachu, and others.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Not that ridiculous if you ask me. Just because microscopic Olimar is in doesn't mean that the "Too small" argument is invalid.

 

[Louie G.]

Not that ridiculous if you ask me. Just because microscopic Olimar is in doesn't mean that the "Too small" argument is invalid.

Listen, if Pikachu is the size that he is in Smash, they don't even HAVE to resize Hawlucha.
Plus, if a microscopic character doesn't kill that argument, I'm not sure what does.

 

[Banjodorf]

The too small argument was invalid a long time ago. Even if you don't think so, it doesn't really dictate Greninja's chances versus another Pokemon newcomer, especially since arguably the only Pokemon characters left to get in are Mewtwo and Jiggs.

 

[ImaClubYou]

If you think about the too big argument and too small argument as the same then Ridley should have been playable but as of late is seen as a stage hazard. That makes both the too big and too small arguments valid. Olimar is in because it's Miyamoto's baby.

I won't back down on my opinion, which you also have. It's not a fact, and I'm standing tall to it.

 

[Banjodorf]

If you think about the too big argument and too small argument as the same then Ridley should have been playable but as of late is seen as a stage hazard. That makes both the too big and too small arguments valid. Olimar is in because it's Miyamoto's baby.

I won't back down on my opinion, which you also have. It's not a fact, and I'm standing tall to it.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Greninja. My point is that Greninja's "competition" was literally two Pokemon veterans who may both be added anyway. So I really have no idea why the "too small" argument is being discussed in a thread about Greninja.

 

[ImaClubYou]

You got into it, too, btw.

If it makes anyone feel better, if it's not a size issue that's a problem for you, he also looks weird in my opinion and isn't even a relevant Pokemon(canonically of course, I use him in the OU tier list sometimes). Greninja is factually the most deserving 6th gen Pokemon IF a 6th gen Pokemon had to get in.

 

[Banjodorf]

Wait a minute, is this whole thing about Hawlucha? He's not even really in the running, because if Pokemon gets 5 reps or 6, the choices are obvious. If it's 5, then Mewtwo and Jiggs are fighting for it. That's it.

 

[dimensionsword64]

I think Mewtwo is less likely. I'm pretty sure (and hope) we're going to get Jigglypuff back, which would leave the Pokemon selection at 5 characters.

 

[Morbi]

I'm pretty sure the to small element got thrown ot the window when olimar became playable
a better argument for sylveon would be no way to grab the edge (remember, ivysaur has four legs)

And now Ivysaur is gone...

Anyways; I feel as though the inclusion of Greninja has a detrimental effect on Blaziken and every other Pokemon that hasn't already been playable (as he is our Newcomer for Smash 64, we probably wont get another one). Other than that, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are obviously going to return; Pichu is probably not going to return.

 

[VioletSmashfan]

And now Ivysaur is gone...

Anyways; I feel as though the inclusion of Greninja has a detrimental effect on Blaziken and every other Pokemon that hasn't already been playable (as he is our Newcomer for Smash 64, we probably wont get another one). Other than that, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff are obviously going to return; Pichu is probably not going to return.

Blaziken would have ended up cloning Captain Falcon, because they share similar physiques with one another, good thing Blaziken's not in Smash yet his best shot to get in was Melee and Brawl (this of course had Melee been moved to an early 04 release rather than the release it actually got we'd probably would have had a 3rd Gen rep), the same kinda goes for Pichu with Pikachu, plus Pichu was added in as a joke character by Gamefreak, I'm almost 100% sure that Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are in, (although we'll have to wait for E3 to find out if they're in or not) although my favorite Pokémon Gardevoir is probably 1 and done from the Pokeball roster (mostly because lot of fans disliked her Pokeball effect from Brawl, and the fact she had a cameo in the Charizard/Greninja direct trailer as did Zororak.)

 

[UberPyro64]

How I see it is Brawl had 6 Pokemon so why can't this game? Plus each Pokemon game allows for 6 in your party so it would be perfect to have 6.

Those last two will obviously be Jigglypuff and Mewtwo. Mewtwo is super requested to come back and Jigglypuff is part of the original 12 and an iconic part of Smash.

Plus of the two of them are added then Smash 3DS/Wii U will have 11 of the 18 types covered. This is counting Charizard's Dragon type when in Mega Form.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Wait a minute, is this whole thing about Hawlucha? He's not even really in the running

true, just pointing out the flawed logic

 

[ImaClubYou]

true, just pointing out the flawed logic

If the logic of size was flawed then Ridley would have been playable. I guess that logic is out the window, lmao.