Greninja tips

[Zero1999]

Anyone knows any tips that can help my Greninja?, I main him since 1 month ago, i know some combos like the Up throw>Uair, Subsitute( Appearing down the opponent) Dair or Uair, but the problem is when I can use some of his moves effectively? Like Shadow Sneak, Substitute timing, etc
Any help would be appreciating

 

[Snackss]

There's another thread about learning Greninja: http://smashboards.com/threads/considering-greninja-as-a-main.399814/
You can also use the QA thread. A mod is probably going to say this stuff anyway, but I might as well say it too.

Aside from that, Substitute feels very unreliable. It's easily the worst counter in the game, but it's sometimes worth remembering you have it. Need to be pretty precise with it, it isn't active for very long and sometimes it's unresponsive (no idea why).
Shadow Sneak is good for catching people on their landing. Maybe they'll try to attack you before they land and you sneak behind them and hit them. It's also a strong and safe punish for people who charge a smash attack out of your range. Sometimes you can use it to counter dash attacks, but that's risky since it can be predictable and still has a startup time.

Learn to space with short hop forward air. It can keep people out or punish them for approaching recklessly.
Don't spam neutral air. It can be safe if followed up by jab on characters who don't have a 3 frame grab, but that doesn't mean you should do it all the time. Try doing it as a crossup (land behind them), so they can't grab you when you land. Can be followed up by up smash or forward smash at low percents. I don't think it's always a true combo, but you can definitely catch people on their landing lag or after an airdodge. It combos into forward air at higher percents. There's a whole combo thread.

Greninja's dash attack travels a pretty pathetic distance. Don't be reckless when using it, and don't use it as an approach against grounded opponents.

Remember that Greninja has a crappy 7 frame (I think) standing grab, so don't rely on shield and grab to punish people on landing, because you'll very likely just get jabbed. Especially Captain Falcon and Zero Suit.

Hydro Pump is actually useful on-stage. It pushes them backwards and does slight damage if you go straight backwards onstage, and if you use it then immediately push down or diagonal down, it can make airborne opponents float and easily set you up for a dash grab, up smash, whatever. Off-stage it can easily gimp people or put them in an extremely vulnerable position after their up b, so you can follow up with forward air, down smash, whatever.

 

[Ludiloco]

Yeah wouldn't worry about getting good at using Sub, it's really easy to punish due to the horrid endlag. One thing I do like to do with it though is mix up my descent. Using Sub in the air slows your fall speed momentarily, but only once until you touch the ground. I like to use it when my opponent knocks me up in the air and can't reach the follow up. It just gives you a solid second to breathe while your opponent is forced to drop down and try again, and you get an extra second to read your landing options

The first things I would do to learn Greninja would be to learn his neutral game and to get good with his recovery. Because Greninja is one of the few characters in the game that grab OoS is not an effective strategy (his grab comes out frame 14, it's easily beaten by jabs and other grabs), he actually plays a lot more like a Melee or PM character. He can't just sit in his shield and let his opponent come to him, he has to be active and poke the opponent with well-spaced moves. Just know not to over use your shield and to keep moving, and you'll be in a good place with the ninja frog.

After that, learn your punish options. Greninja is very fast, but his frame data is not. Jabs are one of ninja's fastest moves, they do decent damage and put your opponent in a bad place for a brief moment. Dash attack also is fairly quick and pops people up for f-air or up smash most of the time. Finally, dash grab comes out much faster than standing grab and is actually a viable punish option. If they're too far away, just chuck a shuriken and take some damage.

I could keep going but I'd rather not write a novel as I'm sure you'd rather not read one. If you look around here and on youtube you'll find lots of helpful info for playing the froggy.

 

[Zero1999]

Yeah wouldn't worry about getting good at using Sub, it's really easy to punish due to the horrid endlag. One thing I do like to do with it though is mix up my descent. Using Sub in the air slows your fall speed momentarily, but only once until you touch the ground. I like to use it when my opponent knocks me up in the air and can't reach the follow up. It just gives you a solid second to breathe while your opponent is forced to drop down and try again, and you get an extra second to read your landing options

The first things I would do to learn Greninja would be to learn his neutral game and to get good with his recovery. Because Greninja is one of the few characters in the game that grab OoS is not an effective strategy (his grab comes out frame 14, it's easily beaten by jabs and other grabs), he actually plays a lot more like a Melee or PM character. He can't just sit in his shield and let his opponent come to him, he has to be active and poke the opponent with well-spaced moves. Just know not to over use your shield and to keep moving, and you'll be in a good place with the ninja frog.

After that, learn your punish options. Greninja is very fast, but his frame data is not. Jabs are one of ninja's fastest moves, they do decent damage and put your opponent in a bad place for a brief moment. Dash attack also is fairly quick and pops people up for f-air or up smash most of the time. Finally, dash grab comes out much faster than standing grab and is actually a viable punish option. If they're too far away, just chuck a shuriken and take some damage.

I could keep going but I'd rather not write a novel as I'm sure you'd rather not read one. If you look around here and on youtube you'll find lots of helpful info for playing the froggy.

Your right using Substitute in the air slows me down ( Its like Fox Reflector in Brawl), but the surprise factor of the Substitute is nice though
His grab can be quite tricky, but I feel its worth, I try the Dash grab to see If I can make good use.
Thanks for the suggestion, also Is Shadow Sneak offstage is good?

 

[Ludiloco]

Yep, it's a nice tool for horizontal recovery but can be punished. If your opponent comes out far to hit you it can also net you a surprise kill now and then, but it's risky and an air dodge is the safer option.

 

[David Galanos]

I have something copied and pasted from whenever someone asks me on tips for Greninja so I'll just paste that srry if it's out of date:

Greninja in my opinion has a higher learning curve and is generally not as easy to play as some other characters, but he's a ton of fun. Some things you'll wanna start off with, is Nair approaching, which leads to follow ups like jab, down tilt, which if you do down tilt it can lead into a string at lower percents. Then you also have up throw up air to get damage at low percents but at higher you may need to read an air dodge. There's a lot of other combos and tricks like his up air spike you should learn. Head over to Smashboards.com and check the Greninja thread there's a whole list of combos, matchups, and useful information. Spacing with fair is another great tool. Watch aMSa at Apex and at other tournaments you'll learn from him. Greninja's mobility should be taken advantage of so running around in training mode and getting good movement is a good idea. There's a ton more I can say but I'll just say to keep practicing him and over time you'll get used to how he plays and learn things about him.

 

[Zero1999]

Thanks David, Ludiloco and Snackss for the Greninja tips
I feel a lot better reading these suggestions, I never knew that Uair could spike (Its hard for me because of the 3DS but its possible.
I like to play as Greninja because Its my favorite character, I definetily watch some tournaments with Greninja to watch and learn more his playstyle, tricks and combos

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Just work on your fundamentals then work on developing your style. Don't try to mimic anyone else's style because you're not them. Just 2¢

 

[Blaziking17]

Just work on your fundamentals then work on developing your style. Don't try to mimic anyone else's style because you're not them. Just 2¢

I think it's a double-edged sword when it comes to finding out how different people play with Greninja. You can find some things that look cool when executed on a consistent basis, but on the flip-side, if you try to emulate a style without focusing on fundamentals, people will easily be able to see what you're doing and counter against that.
Bottom line is, if you're uncomfortable in using certain moves, then don't spend your time on those just yet. Instead, focus on the fundamentals for Greninja, his attacks, defense, movements, and evasion. Try to pick up on some of Greninja's combos at certain percents, and face off against a variety of opponents and characters. For example, I was watching how aMSa recovered using Hydro Pump, and it looked really cool, but I was also uncomfortable in my ability with Hydro Pump. I went into training mode, and worked on some basics, including recovering with Hydro Pump. I focused on recovering with what I was comfortable doing, and then I gradually branched out getting creative with the directional inputs for Hydro Pump. I gained confidence in the versatility I gained from that practice session, and now I can use Hydro Pump offstage with more confidence. It's not on the level of aMSa, but it shows that while you can be inspired by other people playing Greninja, it's worth it to work with it on your own at your own pace.

 

[Zero1999]

I think it's a double-edged sword when it comes to finding out how different people play with Greninja. You can find some things that look cool when executed on a consistent basis, but on the flip-side, if you try to emulate a style without focusing on fundamentals, people will easily be able to see what you're doing and counter against that.
Bottom line is, if you're uncomfortable in using certain moves, then don't spend your time on those just yet. Instead, focus on the fundamentals for Greninja, his attacks, defense, movements, and evasion. Try to pick up on some of Greninja's combos at certain percents, and face off against a variety of opponents and characters. For example, I was watching how aMSa recovered using Hydro Pump, and it looked really cool, but I was also uncomfortable in my ability with Hydro Pump. I went into training mode, and worked on some basics, including recovering with Hydro Pump. I focused on recovering with what I was comfortable doing, and then I gradually branched out getting creative with the directional inputs for Hydro Pump. I gained confidence in the versatility I gained from that practice session, and now I can use Hydro Pump offstage with more confidence. It's not on the level of aMSa, but it shows that while you can be inspired by other people playing Greninja, it's worth it to work with it on your own at your own pace.

Agreed, I dont want to copy another player style, I like mixing stuff, for example i usually do a substitute near the edge when the opponent tries to recover, to discover that they ended baiting my trap, I try to be as less predictable as I can, I watch others players to see, how I can improve in what aspects and combine those aspect with my playstyle